Which means that we can preach God's love to all men, even to his enemies; besides, all are at enmity with God anyway.
Brother John, As I think right now about sinners; they are not dead in the sense they are merely uncaring, apathetic and indifferent [neutral] to God but dead in their pride
And the Cross, the blood Jesus willingly shed in His Love for them does quite a number on their lofty pride, doesn't it
Saul of Tarsus out to destroy Christians, these believers of the early Church who knew experiencially filling of the Holy Spirit, who love the Lord Jesus Christ, who are telling everyone they can of Him
gets knocked to the ground, asking 'Who are You?'
What, he didn't know? I thought he had some kind of advanced degree in Theology from Jerusalem, and he still didn't know the One, he was persecuting!
... and his pride kind of went away in a heart beat, and the very Christians he was so determined to destroy would hear he was now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.
Really meeting Jesus can do that
"Let us go to His dwelling place; let us worship at His footstool." Psalm 132:7
Good Morning! Brother John Woke up this morning with a dream of being surprised to be called up in front of a large church congregation to give my testimony [I've got to be careful with dreams, as before my RC father's death - I dreamed of preaching at his funeral in a RC Church ... it happened I got to do just that]
Scripture [the TRUTH] was enormously important and an absolute essential part of God saving me.
William Gurnell writes in "The Christian in Complete Armour" about the Truth defining Truth as:
(Q) the substance of His (God's) thoughts and counsels from everlasting to everlasting. It is the fullest representation that God Himself could give of His Own Being so that we might know and love Him. (EOQ)
(Q) As we accept or reject Truth we accept or reject God. Although men cannot pull God from His throne and ungod Him, they come as close as possible WHEN THEY ATTACK THE TRUTH - they execute God in effigy (EOQ)
Brother, if Scripture is Eternal Everlasting Truth, and it is, our very lives and beings depending on what He says; And if the Word of God tells us that God is Love, and He is Love; we will either believe this and JOYFULLY worship, love and serve Him;
or believe the lie of Satan, that He really isn't Love and put Him to death in effigy?
Christopher000 wrote: Again, I'm trying to process God loves everyone, and really need to listen to sermons mentioned and study the scriptures on it deeper to try and grasp what everyone else seems to already get, whether that being He does, or He doesn't.
Love you my brother, Christopher
Shhhhhh! This might get me into trouble because I going to recommend an honestly imperfect DVD
but here is a clip of testimony https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US9gm-Dm3QE
Anyway, I am recommending the imperfect DVD that can perhaps be a better blessing in understanding the Grace of God than sometimes (ivory tower preachers ?) might get way to technical to appreciate
ladybug wrote: As I also stated, you must now embrace John Y as a 'brother' for he has accepted the 'jesus' of free will...
Back to Romans 16:17
Dear Ladybug, one who breaks my heart and make me want to weep for you.
Really? As "I" also stated I plead with you, please don't make your "wisdom" on any par with that of the wisdom of God; you and I are simply lacking (a polite way to say it) in knowledge and understanding and especially in Sovereignty, whereby we can make our own personal opinions and interpretation out to be on par with the Canon of Scripture and dictate to others what their faith can and cannot be.
Wasn't this part of the very thing Jesus Christ severely rebuked the Pharisees for in Matthew 23 ... the lording it over another's faith
Perhaps both you, JY and all of us; ought humbly make our calling and election sure?
And how would we do so?
Could it possibly be in genuinely following Jesus and loving people as He loved them? Or if you like other words; learning from what Paul by the Spirit wrote to us in 2 Cor 5:14,15 'til the love of Christ truly compels, motivates and controls us and not our individual personal preferences, even if they be very religious like those of the Pharisees?
John UK wrote: Yes indeed bro! That's the way of it.
God is love! Friend of sinners! Oh boy, it is good news.
Brother John You may appreciate this: Last night a few of us took the song: No, Not One into our local county jail and from the verses of this hymn that identifies Jesus Christ as the Friend who sticks closer than a brother (Proverbs 17:17; Proverbs 18:24 and more ...)
Spoke of the One who could (and ultimately does) heal all our souls diseases ... which would be things such as Pride, Apathy, Arrogance, even Religious Self-Righteousness, Lying, Witchcraft (or Priestcraft if one prefers) and Loveless Hypocrisy
One who knows all about our struggles One who will guide us 'til the day is done
One who is always near, who never forsakes His sheep One no sinner has ever found would not take him and refuse a home in heaven with Him
A Hymn that encourages a man to faith, encourages Him to Trust in the Only One who can save him completely and forever from his sins AND even sing of Him, even in jail
editting: wanted to add another song orginally by Charles Wesley
Arise, My Soul, Arise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuJ7-s3gN4k
ladybug wrote: All is well Christopher, no worries. The Gospel message is not 'God loves you'
Ladybug, I am so weeping for you! It was Jesus Christ Himself who told us ....
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16
And the Holy Spirit move, the same John the Apostle to write to us:
(7) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (8) He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (9) In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. (10) In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. (11) Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 1 John 4:7-11
And you somehow tell us the Gospel message isn't that 'God Love you'
Have you not taken to heart [it is in Scripture] : "Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?" Romans 2:4
Perhaps you're confused about God's loving goodness
John UK wrote: Because as he is (namely, God is Love). So are we?
Boldness on the Day of Judgment is for those who love like God loves. That's what the apostle is saying.
A lot of folks sure don't understand the gospel, despite listening to millions of sermons.
Brother John UK
Amen! and Another Amen!
I think I will use the word "WITCHCRAFT" Satan bewitched/deceived angels who had seen the Glory of God to rebel with him against God
And the Pharisees? Didn't they rebel against the way Jesus was living (showing genuine love and concern for sinners ), accusing Him of being a Friend of Sinners, like He was some kind of Arminian Heretic needing to be burned at the stake or something for His crimes against the Pharisees' Tradition (dictates).
(1) â€śThese things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. (2)They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. (3) And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. John 16:1-3
... because they have not known (nor believed the Scriptures) God is Love?
MS wrote: Well said B.Mc., Frank, and US. -- Give God the Glory for His great mercy. Celebrity,ministerial wolves are a dime a dozen and lead many on the broad road...shame on those who defend and promote such heretics.
MS Have you NOT read; â€śThe scribes and the Pharisees sit in Mosesâ€™ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do." See Matthew 23:2,3; in the very same chapter Jesus proclaims Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees and Hypocrites!
If a Billy Graham preaches the Gospel, believe the Gospel. If he joins (he has) joined with Rome part company with him; but do NOT discredit the Gospel; and if I might add please do not discredit a brother seeking the Gospel be made know to all men, if he has carefully examined entire sermons by this heartbreaking individual (BG)
By the way there are groups and individuals that are NOT joined up as yet with Rome; but that doesn't mean they preach the Gospel - Think Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, Communists (?) probably Westboro Baptist (hate to abuse the world) Church, the KKK and maybe BLM and Antifa as well.
Since "Evangelicals & Catholics Together" came up let me recommend the Book by John Ankerberg and John Weldon: Protestants & Catholics: Do They Now Agree?
and tell a little story:
Saturday, my wife and I met one of my mother's friends (my mother is now deceased) while having breakfast. A feisty former RC never to be again born again believer. She told us how she loves her RC relatives and how she had one say to her, 'When are you going to stop giving us Bibles for Christmas?' She told us that she told this relative, "When you read it."
My point being, SHE STANDS ON THE WORD OF GOD and preaches/witnesses the Gospel, she loves Catholic people, prays for and witnesses to them (my mother was one), but she doesn't join together with them, despite religious celebrities such as Billy Graham doing so; and IMHO this is a pretty good example (maybe not perfect) we might all do well to follow
ladybug wrote: False accusations are another wildly popular tactic aren't they? I asked you who wrote Psalm 5:5, God or Pink?
Dearest Ladybug It was God who wrote Psalm 5:5 The very same God who also wrote 1 John 4:1-8 John 13:35 1 John 5:1-5 John 3:16 using the word whoever/whosoever Romans 10:11,13 using the word whoever
Isn't this ridiculous, either someone who professes to be a Christian believes God is Love or they don't; Either they believe Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, or that He came to save only the elect
Please do note Paul by the Spirit in 1 Timothy writes: Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. 1 Tim 1:16 ... as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life (Paul by the Spirit claims to be the foremost of sinners)
And follows this in Chapter 2 telling us by the same Spirit, the Spirit of Truth: " who desires all men to be saved and to come to the [c]knowledge of the truth." 1 Tim 2:4
Now about the imperfect Piper; despite his flaws he refers to Scripture and to the Royal Law, the Law of Love; he doesn't try to explain them away
Dear Ladybug, Ah please do be careful in pointing fingers.
My Bible tells me God is Love And I would trust yours tells you the very same thing, unless it has been somehow mysteriously erased
Yes! we are getting into important territory and issues our very lives, and the lives of everyone we would love and care about, or ought to, depend upon
Please do watch, it is short about 6 minutes; Pastor Ryan Fuller being interviewed on the subject of how important love is
as a reference: But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. 1 Timothy 1:5-7
ladybug wrote: AM The fact that you simply refuse to understand the God of
Dear Precious Ladybug Please do be gracious to this imperfect believer, one of Christ's sheep
and consider, isn't your comment to me more along the lines I simply do not understand the PINK's version of the God of the Bible
and if you are honest and willing the imperfect but much beloved C.H. Spurgeon did not treat John 3:16 the same as PINK did, did he.
Do you want to get angry with me, because I thank God for Spurgeon and find him much more inline with Scripture, and the context and content of Scripture, its emphasis on the centrality and preeminence of Jesus Christ, of knowing Him, believing Him, loving Him telling others of Him
than the often quoted PINK?
Why, if I had the choice in there day of sitting under PINK or SPURGEON who do you think might be better choice to be encouraged in ones faith in Christ to bear good fruit for Him?
Love you, and Kev too but more important than that Jesus love you, even as the Scriptures says He does. BTW I once had an outright heretical openly Scripture denying pastor (had himself a Dr in Theology) accuse me of being unteachable because I dared to believe the Bible not him
John UK wrote: I sure wish I had more wisdom bro. Locally I have to help a goodly Christian woman who has fallen foul of severe error, and I have to tread gently or she will, as you say, throw a wobbler, and lose out big time. I don't have the patience of Job nor the wisdom of Solomon. But the Lord has given the situation to me and no other, so I have that responsibility. Please pray for me brother. This coming Lord's Day will be important.
Amen! I will certainly be in prayer.
For what it is worth as one imperfect human being to another, IMHO when anyone begins to see how immeasurably He has loved them first, while they were yet a sinner
It is then they want to know Him, want to listen to His word and in His grace can come to genuine heartbroken and JOYFULL Repentance in the faith there for us in His precious Holy Word, in the Immeasurable Good News of a Savior of Immeasurable Worth, to know, to love, to follow, to serve and even to die for, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Love you my brother, Ladybug, I love you too
Kev, long before I ever knew you where out there somewhere God graciously gave me Psalm 119:97-104 Verses this imperfect servant has much learning and growing to do (Hint: they are still true irregardless of me)
[QUOTE]Rabbit trail? Not at all. This is real life, and real people. Many people cannot believe that God loves them. It was a revelation to me when someone quoted John 3:16. God used that text in my conversion. Ask the Lord, he will tell you.[/QUOTE]John UK If I could but sit down with Ladybug I could tell her with a broken heart how the RCC hid John 3:16 from me and how God used it in my own conversion breaking my heart that I was in sin against Him; and now comes this non-Roman Catholic, PINK essentially hiding the wonder of John 3:16 from people too. It breaks my heart, and I believe the heart of God as well because the love of God is at the very heart of the Gospel, crying out to men, pleading with them to Come to Jesus Christ and be saved from their sins.
I would also tell her I would point to the Cross and how the love of God "demands" we repent of our sin/rebellion against God and love the Lord Jesus Christ, and even love the worst of sinners as He did too
1 Timothy 1:15,16 (...that in me, as the foremost....)
Ladybug, Satan himself supported his temptation of Jesus with Scripture, Matt 4:5,6; don't forget that; "Ask the Lord, he will tell you."
ladybug wrote: Michael, 'World' in John 3:16 does not mean every sinner ever born.
Dearest Ladybug Are you practicing "Selective Literalism?"
Look at your own post where you got it from: PINK!
I am so sorry but it reminds me so much of what the serpent said to Eve, getting her to question and doubt what God clearly said, for in another place (Hint: Romans 5:8 we are told God demonstrates/commends His own love for us, while we were still sinners
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous personâ€”though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to dieâ€” but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:6-8
Question: Sola Scriptura? or Question: Sola Scriptura PLUS Pink?
John UK, I've got to compliment you brother for you difficult stand as it is so dangerous to the life of young Christians to be uprooting the tares sown among the wheat, and if we are not on guard prayerfully we can be seduced to harm our own imperfect brothers and sisters. A bruise reed He will not break, nor quench a smoldering flax.
ladybug wrote: I asked where does the bible say a sinner can 'invite' Jesus into their hearts. I asked where does Christ or any of the disciples state to the masses 'God loves you'. Now, can you show, from scripture, where this is taught, preached, or examples given? Please, only respond IF you can answer the questions posted as I have written them.
Dearest Ladybug, I hope you understand context, in the context
First, the Love of God is clearly preached (proclaimed) 1. By Jesus Himself John 3:16 to a lost man 2. By the Apostle John in 1 John 3 & 4 3. By the Apostle Paul in 2 Cor 5:14,15 4. By David Psalm 138:2 If you are willing that ought to be a good start for you
Second, let's not be straining out gnats, as the wording used in Scripture uses words such as RECEIVE (which would be where?) and COME as well as BELIEVE and is found in various passages 1. John 1:10-13 2. Ephesians 3:14-21 3. Revelation 3:18-22; 22:12-21 4. Proverbs 23:26,27 Again this ought to give you some of God's word that would be proffitable to take to heart
By the way did you know Jesus Christ was a friend to sinners?
John UK wrote: Isaiah 55:6-7 KJV (6)Â Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: (7)Â Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
This is a great gospel text, even though it be OT. Is the Lord sincere? Or does he not know that "there are none who seek him"?
Welcome to TOTA SCRIPTURA, Brother John
Dearest Ladybug, I am an imperfect former never to be again Roman Catholic, saved only by and in the lovingkindness, the grace and faithfulness of God to be true to His word and promises.
I hate Roman Catholicism BUT NOT ROMAN CATHOLIC PEOPLE, I would die to see them saved, if that would be how God would reach them.
Perhaps my hatred of Roman Catholicism is TOO MUCH for some who love Augustine, and maybe PINK too
AND perhaps not sufficient for some who seem to express a desire to see all Roman Catholics, and anyone who cares about their salvation burning in Hell forever
I do hope you can love my Brother John UK Because Jesus loved him and died for him (you too) on the Cross; the Love of God is certainly something unregenerate people in vain fail to have and know
Unprofitable Servant wrote: John UK, for the sake of this discussion we are going to assume that the gospel was clearly and correctly given during the sermon that was preached.
Group A are people that are convicted by the Spirit of God of sin, righteousness and judgment to come. They have their eyes opened to the truth of the gospel and the necessity of salvation by faith in Christ. Because of the drawing work of God and the working of the Spirit through the Word of God, they don't need to be told what to do by a counselor when they come to the altar (place actually is not important), they confess their need of Christ and are marvelously saved by the grace of God...
Group B hear the same message. They might even have some genuine Holy Spirit conviction. But they are ...
US TN Thank you, good observation A question here: So, Ought Not the CROSS be truly and accurately preached, in the Power of the Spirit
Paul writes of enemies of the Cross Phil 3:18
The Old Cross and The New A.W. Tozer https://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/books/faith/Tozer/tozer-cross.htm
Jesus, I my Cross Have Taken https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jesus+i+my+cross+have+taken+indelible+grace
Mike wrote: Devil's advocate day. Can of worms? If the one way is declared heretically wrong, does that mean the opposite of that wrong way is the right?: 1. Do not admit your need.(I am not a sinner) 2. Be unwilling to turn toward God, away from your sins, putting your trust in Jesus.(I am not repentant) 3. Do not believe Jesus Christ died for you on the cross and rose from the grave. If YOU believe and put your trust in him, it's a work. 4. Do not allow Christ to come in and control your life through the Holy Spirit. (Do not pray, reject him as your Lord and Savior.) 5. Just wait, do nothing for you can do nothing anyway. Not to worry, if you are among the elect, you will be saved, and one day it will happen without any input from you. Like magic, you will just know you won the heavenly lottery. You only have to receive the gift, without YOU receiving the gift. If you are not elect, too bad, loser. And it's your fault, too. It's what you get for being passed by. Sorry.
Mike NY Thank you for your insightful way of looking past serious theological presumptions.
What's wrong with: Conviction & sorrow of sin? Willingness to turn to God and obey Him? Seeking Jesus; Trusting entirely that He must save you from sin