John UK wrote: Ladybug, please do not distract me from the job in hand. This article is about ecumenism; and to boot it misinterprets Isaiah 64:6. I am investigating only the gospel message that Franklin preaches, from his own mouth, at a preaching venue. I am seeing if he preaches an "accursed gospel" and therefore is a "false prophet" himself. The message I have watched thus far, which I linked to, I do not see how the RCC could accept, seeing as Franklin showed that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone. The RCC does not believe this, indeed it was a major point in the Protestant Reformation which Catholics are still trying to counter. I have heard Reformers preaching on the same passage in Matthew 8, and they allow it to represent sinners who are conscious of perishing in their sins, and who may cry out to Jesus in anguish of soul, "Lord, save me - I perish!" It is a great prayer for one in such a convicted state; indeed I myself was saved while praying such.
Good attitude, my brother John If they preach the Gospel, Praise God, even it there might be much we personally might dislike
If they preach not the Gospel, may be weep and mourn and part company with them no matter how likeable
Rodney K. wrote: From the SBC confession (BFM-2000) IV. Salvation
Thanks Rodney, sound good and sits well with me Biblically
I will admit I am way busy today and this evening getting ready for a 16 hour day tomorrow; nevertheless it seems compatible with, inline/agreement with: A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of Godâ€™s Plan of Salvation
Connor7 wrote: Also, Michael believes that Jesus died for everyone, yet he denies universalism, I had a discussion with him on a past thread, and he really didn't defend his position quite well.
Connor 7 Discussion? or Attack?
Simple Question and/or Request Have you carefully read:
A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of Godâ€™s Plan of Salvation (personal disclaimer although I am not a Southern Baptist I do appreciate the thought and words this document uses - Especially that this document address the false dichotomy of Calvinism vs Arminianism; as a Traditional Understanding of Salvation is NOT Arminianism, thank you very much)
John UK wrote: Michael, if I might interject a comment here. It was because of the biblical truths found in the TULIP that the Lord had to do an inward work in my heart before I would ever have a desire to become a Christian.
This is my testimony
Dear Brother John It is because God set people to pray and intercede for this man who was so hostile at the thought of any need to believe in God, let alone to love Him and obey Him
And that He Sovereignly brought witnesses into my life to witness Biblical Truth to me, and more that that to demonstrate the love of God to me, my heart was softened when He brought the conviction of Psalm 138:2 John 3:16 (truth hidden from me in the Sola Scriptura denying RCC & twisted by Pink)
John, ulitmately He drew me to seek Him, and in my seeking of Him (which I would NOT have done but for His Mercy, Grace and Love) He revealed He is indeed the Living God and He "instructed me" to choose His Son (accept/receive His Son) ... my choice to freely accept Jesus Christ on His terms of repentance and faith and be forgiven of my sins and saved to live for Him or reject Him and be justly damned to hell for my sins (never entered my mind this elect or non-elect business)
Rodney K. wrote: I understand your argument because I used to believe the same thing - except that I also thought that a believer could lose his salvation. I took me about a year and a half of diligently studying the scriptures and weighing the evidence to convince me that my presuppositions were wrong. That is the problem with a forum like this. I've yet to see anyone radically change their sotierology based on something someone posted in 1300 characters or less.
Rodney You are right there simply isn't enough space
My story is a bit different on assurance of salvation ... it was when God graciously let me understand I didn't have to be forced to be either a Calvinist or an Arminian that I found both liberty and peace, along with the struggle to keep both from those seeking to bring people into bondage to whatever their particular "ism" was.
Sola Scriptura (not an imposed "faith" by any kind of Popery, Catholic or Protestant) and the reality of the indwelling Holy Spirit was hugely important in this. After all are we not told, 'as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.'
Q: What kind of faith will a man have with Sola Scriptura? A: The faith that God (not man) authors, honors and rewards
Rodney K. wrote: You still haven't answered my initial objection concerning Connect316.
Rodney While I initially came to faith while attending a SBC Church in Knoxville, TN in 1980 it has been years since I've been a part of a SBC Church; so I know little of Connect316 and their doings.
I will say this knowing there is a wide range of Reformed/Calvinist types in Churches today I am personally opposed to any kind of witch hunts to purge churches. For example while I might disagree with Spurgeon on some things, I would not appreciate people seeking to "burn my copies of his books/sermons" because he professed to be a Calvinist [But I would indeed encourage throwing books like The Shack and Rick Warren's The Purpose Driven Church to the dung heap and explain why]
Rodney, I've seen things for the other side of Calvinists seeking to take over and/or purge churches of Traditional non-Calvinist Christian beliefs, that is why I had no problem linking an article defending Traditional Beliefs, my intent was a careful examination of the 10 Affirmations & Denials would be good for ones faith
Rodney K. wrote: Check what they say against Scripture.
Rodney K. wrote: Hello A.M. I'm doing well. Thanks for asking. I pray that things are good for you too. I think you and I have something different in mind when we refer to the sovereignty of God.
Good Morning, Rodney; praying for you as well.
Yes, I have a different appreciation of the Sovereignty of Almighty God and what the Bible reveals and Jesus taught.
One, I am cautious to accuse God of being in "CONTROL" of, predestinating all the actions of man, because that could be taken to mean, it was His eternal decree a random young woman would be raped and murdered. There is no way this would be Love, and God is Love.
I hold that the Bible teaches God sets before us real choices of life and death, and instructs us to choose life
I hold Jesus Himself taught there is a foolish way, a wide gate and broad path that leads to destruction and a wise way of hearing the word of God and acting upon His words, a narrow gate and a difficult way that leads to life.
AND Does not Scripture repeatedly tell us, 'Today if you hear would His voice do not harden your hearts.'
I am cautious of reality, as Jesus told us of 4 kinds of soils, the hardened Pharisees refusing to see and hear and imperfect disciples both hearing and seeing
It also doesn't say that the power of God unto salvation is limited by man's decisions.
Rodney Been busy, hope you are well.
But seriously now just who limits God's sovereignty? The Traditionalist has no problem to see that Almighty God is Wonderfully Sovereign regardless of what men choose or do not choose ... for me this ties into the Reality Yahweh is of immeasurable worth and desirability (hint: Someone has said He is most glorified in His Immeasurable Undeserved Love for us, for sinners even before they turn to Him; and no I am NOT saying His love is an irrresponsable one, for He is terrifyingly just - hence in His love there stands the Cross and Jesus Christ mighty and willing to save the worst of sinners; ask Paul)
But some non-Traditionalists have gotten themselves into a heart-breaking "Limited Sovereignty" as if men when faced with the facts/reality/conviction/guilt of their sins and God's Righteousness couldn't possibly fall down in humble brokenness cry out to Him for mercy (or so they have repeated told me in their own words). Why some have told me I must be a "pejorative word" for simply taking Scriptures like John 3:16 at face value
We affirm that the Lord Jesus Christ commissioned His church to preach the good news of salvation to all people to the ends of the earth. We affirm that the proclamation of the Gospel is God's means of bringing any person to salvation.
We deny that salvation is possible outside of a faith response to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
That last part clearly goes against any interfaith ecumenism, by Billy Graham or anyone else
Rodney K. wrote: Yes, I believe that regeneration precedes faith, BUT in this regard: Regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit in the life of an individual whereby the person is brought to saving faith.
Something you might want to consider carefully, are you saying saving faith (regeneration before faith) is the work of the Gospel?
From what Calvinist have told me, in their interpretation unsaved/lost men are totally incapable of hearing the Gospel
Yet, if we read carefully Paul by the Spirit in Romans 10 tells us that whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, or is already saved/regenerated? ... he also says the faith comes by hearing, or is it faith comes by regeneration before hearing?
I will go back to my earlier premise which I found in Scripture:
The Gospel of Christ is the Power of God unto Salvation to everyone who believes, it is simply not written that the Power of God unto salvation is regeneration so that a select limited number might believe
Rodney K. wrote: Where has anyone here stated anything resembling any of this stuff? I know that I haven't read every post, but I know of no one here who thinks that salvation and regeneration can come prior to or independent of hearing (or reading) the Gospel (or apart from the work of the Holy Spirit).
Regeneration before faith? How about RC Sproul https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/sproul01.html
How about 9 Marks https://www.9marks.org/article/does-regeneration-necessarily-precede-conversion/
How about John Piper? https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/regeneration-faith-love-in-that-order
Of course there is also a favorite among many Calvinists that God only loves the elect, Arthur Pink https://mikejeshurun.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/a-w-pink-god-does-not-love-everybody/
Jesus standing at the door tells the Church of the Laodiceans, He is going to vomit them out of His mouth nevertheless says:
I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Rev 3:18,19
Connor7 wrote: I think every Calvinist is confused
Connor 7, please do think carefully
Sola Scriptura - Scripture Alone God's word is Truth, it is authoritative, it is sufficient
I love what Paul by the Spirit says,
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, The just shall live by faith.â€ť Romans 1:16,17
I really don't think it is safe nor wise to mess around with Scripture and make it out like the Gospel isn't the power of God for Salvation ... the what really is the Power of God for Salvation is Regeneration before and independent of hearing the Gospel and believing God, independent of any personal repentance and trust in God, any calling upon His name - Romans is full of this stuff
Because if anyone preaches any other Gospel, then the one the Apostles preached, let him be accursed.
Rodney K. wrote: For the record, this document is the foundational statement for
a group of SBC pastors, leaders, etc. who hold to "traditional Southern Baptist" soteriology
Rodney K Is there something wrong with Pastors who hold to a Traditional Biblical Position on God's Plan of Salvation?
IMHO on carefully reading the 10 Articles of Affirmation and Denial in http://sbctoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/A-Statement-of-Traditional-Southern-Baptist-Soteriology-SBC-Today.pdf I found it much more sound and reasonable Biblically on Salvation then what I am seeing in â€śCalvinistâ€ť (T.U.L.I.P) soteriology
and am forced to consider WHY! and WHAT is WRONG with the "New Reformed" to Insist they are the only ones with an infallible interpretation of God's grace and sovereignty
Now please before you all stone me, please do prayerfully read the 10 Articles and maybe even compare it against the "Calvinism" and practice of C.H. Spurgeon
AND since this thread is on Sola Scriptura, does Calvinism see Scripture and the Holy Spirit as sufficient for salvation? Or does the poor wretched sinner need something additional ... like regeneration before and apart from the Word of God, the conviction of the Spirit, repentance and faith?
Dr. Tim Genuine Biblical Christianity is EPIC, if that is the right word to describe the Life Changing Message of a Savior worth everything to know, love and serve in the to the death spiritual war for the souls of men.
IMHO when young people (old people too) again see Jesus Christ is worth dying for then in the grace of God people can see the advancement of His Kingdom is worth living for, really living in the obedience of faith and in the Presence and Power of His Spirit
Someone mentioned recently the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the church, maybe we should cease calling ourselves "the church" until we are again taking the gates of hell, and winning the souls of men
(Hint: taking the gates means there can be a real battle, where courageous people die in the fight and damnable cowards flee and run away)
Christopher000 wrote: Ladybug Wrote: "One last question, are there two gospels? Is there a 'decisionism' gospel like the Grahams preach, and a Gospel the bible says saves sinners by grace?" Just the one.
Christopher000 Came across IMHO a good article
Remember Scripture tells us examine everything carefully/prove all things and hold fast to that which is good
Chris G P from England wrote: When will the liberals and leftists see through the hypocrisy and wickedness of this Canaanite organisation, "Planned Parenthood", (which has actually nothing to do with parenthood, planned or otherwise, but about killing unwanted babies), and its associated "stem cell", "research" companies and suppliers? I really trust that this evil organisation will be found out and prosecuted to the ends of the law!!!!
When? When the Church, genuine born-again believers, those who profess to be Christians are the salt and light God has intended for us to be all along.
But most professing Christians don't believe this, do they; because if they really did we would seriously throw ourselves at the feet of Jesus until we know, really know in sound Biblical Theology His word, and in experiential faith His Presence and Power
and the world would know we are His disciples by our love for everyone born of His Spirit for our families for our neighbors for our enemies
Yes, Even for our neighbors not yet physically born (which might go a long way in loving our neighbors not yet Spirit born)
... and the nations will know ... Ezekiel 36:16-38
bit of testimony I was out with my pastor talking with people last Wednesday We engaged a young man about Sunday being Reformation Sunday and the 5 Solas of the Reformation which our Pastor was preaching on We invited him to come and he came Sunday
I kind of think the 5 Solas are useful in witness to people of the Gospel of Jesus Christ