Case in point would be â€śFor Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonicaâ€¦â€ť (II Timothy 4:10) In this passage, written in AD 66, we see that Demas is being lamented as having Departed from Service. We do not know the exact circumstances of his departure, but the strong wording by Paul, as he considered it a forsaking, leads one to believe it wasnâ€™t a pleasant departure. He was fruitful, but became unfruitful.
â€śAnd some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked themâ€¦â€ť (Matthew 13:7) (And the explanation,) â€śHe also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.â€ť
Lurker: Respectfully â€”The key to the passage that tells us the spiritual condition of the named is found in v4 "...and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost..." (Hebrews 6:4) to partake means to receive a share of. Lost people don't get a piece of the Holy Ghost. You must consider the context of the passage, which begins in Hebrews 5:12- it is discussing those who did not mature, and the leaders if the church, former Hebrews, who are used to the sacrifice, could not wrap their head around the fact that One time sacrifice was good enough, so were preaching salvation again to those who fell into sin, in lieu of making them get right. He was telling them it was impossible for someone who is saved and worldly to get re-saved. They just need to get right.
And the first thing I think of is when my 11 year old sister was made to break up with her â€śboyfriendâ€ť and she yelled, â€śI hate youâ€ť at my father. I saw the same thing a few years ago when a lady lost her child and got mad at God, and said â€śI hate youâ€ť My sister was still my parents child, despite the redundant behaviorâ€”just like this grieved woman who did not rest in the Lord but lashed out in her emotions was still a child of God. It could be the same situationâ€”just in lieu of emotions it was chosen sin that caused the rift. Againâ€”we donâ€™t know his heart. Iâ€™m just making the suggestion that he could have been saved and now heâ€™s running from God. For that, there is still a penaltyâ€”just not hell. Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
I understand the point: everyone wants to fact-check someone elseâ€™s Salvation. My point is simply that he may be saved. Saved people have flesh. Saved people can harden their hearts and turn to sin. Saved people can do anything that a lost person can do. Look at the example in 1 Corinthiansâ€”a young Man sexually engaged with his stepmother. Was he saved? Yes, but he was still in the sin, and to top it off, the Church wasnâ€™t even responding the correct way until admonished by Paul. Thatâ€™s the problem with most Christians nowadaysâ€”they are stuck in a Hebrews 5 mentality. Instead of going into sin and (when you confess and forsake it) moving back to God, they want to excuse it by saying, â€śOh, I must not have really been saved! Oops. Thatâ€™s why I committed X, Y, or Z.â€ť They want to blame the devil, when in reality they had the Holy Spirit of God right there telling them no and they ignored itâ€”grieving and quenching the spiritâ€”as they jogged off headfirst into sin. I donâ€™t know if this yahoo was saved or notâ€”neither do you. But I wouldnâ€™t just write it off like he wasnâ€™t. I would take it as a tremendous warning for us to not allow the flesh that much leeway in our lives, lest we fall as well.
Once your name is in the book of life, it is there: the ONLY Scripture I can see that offers a change for that is Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Is this yahoo LGBTQ? Maybe. Will that send him to hell? No. That sin (while disgusting) is not any different than if he had simply lied on his taxes. James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. It is obvious that he is now a horrible testimony to Christ, and as such we should: 1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Not turn again to the circular arguments about religions named after people. (Arminianism and Calvinism.) Stop talking about the yahoo; let him fall off the pages of history and we will see him in Heaven one day with a new name. The least. Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.
This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. It was not the things written in THEIR books of THEIR behavior that determined whether they were staying in Heaven, it was whether they were in the Book of Life. Whether they have received a pardon. Now, was this yahoo saved? Maybe. If he received the Pardon freely offered by Christ, yes. Is he walking away from Christianity? Yes. From Salvation? No. (Continues)
I think some of you make it a tad more complicated than what God intended. 2 Peter 3:15-16 tells us that â€śAnd account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.â€ť There are two facts about the Salvation. 1.) It is a pardon from eternal judgement FOR our sin. Not a lifting out of our flesh. In Romans 7:15-19, Paul discusses his problems with the flesh post Salvation. Why? Because he still has flesh until he died. Consider Revelation 20:12-15 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not foun
A few passing comments: The I in IFB literally means Independent. I have seen a broad spectrum of standards (or lack) among them. Also, the issue with identity hidingâ€”I get that completely, and follow it myself. I have seen the NON Christian attitudes of spite and getbacks too often in my 27 years as a Christian, and have seen the same attitudes here. I am a published author and have no interest in people getting offended here and leaving a mass of negative reviews on my works based on thatâ€”but thatâ€™s what people in the flesh do, and they are alive and well here. Just saying.
If you really think about it, there are no major corporations:shopping venues out there that are Christian in their ideology or practice. I hear people mention boycotting cell phone makers and shoe makers and every other thing you can think of, but in the end if you do that it will not have any impact on themâ€” honestly, if you gathered every saved individual in the world together it would still not equivilate enough pressure on those corporations to changeâ€¦ At some point we are going to have to understand that we are in the world, not of the worldâ€¦ and the world is never going to conform to us. So honestly, what I am going to do is use my iPhone, wear my Nikes, shop as cheaply as I can, and use all the time that I have to preach the gospel. Just saying
John UKâ€” Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment of my beliefs. I am not espousing an easy believism by stating that one must turn to God in repentance from dead works, and not simply turning from sin. Scripture does simply tell us to â€śBelieve on the Lord Jesus Christ...â€ť and â€śConfess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead...â€ť and many othersâ€”it is belief, but not from a cognitive perspective of â€śthat sounds goodâ€ť but the Bible teaches that the Spirit draws men. It is not without the spirit drawing men that you would apparently assume I speak of. Let me reiterateâ€”you will not be saved by simply believing of Jesus, or thinking heâ€™s a good ideaâ€”you will not be saved unless the Spirit draws you and you turn from your false and phony attempts to manipulate your way into Heaven and believe solely on Christ. However, back to the post at handâ€”this is in direct contradiction to the â€śpreacher drawn salvationsâ€ť that are simply men misusing Scripture to elicit a phony Salvation as some person tries to repent of their sin because the preacher made them feel bad. That was my point.
The fact is, you wonâ€™t find it anywhere in the Bible where we are told to repent of our sins for Salvation. We are supposed repent and to turn to Christ... but what from? I would refer to Hebrews 6, since it is a rundown of the â€śfirst principlesâ€ś and lets us know the basics of faith. â€śTherefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God...â€ť (Hebrews 6:1) What are dead works? Anything that we are trying to do to earn Salvation ourselvesâ€¦ whether it be church membership, following the commandments, or any of the other works that are laid out for us in Scripture. It doesnâ€™t say repent from sin. Should we repent of our sins? Yesâ€¦ Should we turn from our sin and avoid it completelyâ€¦ as best as we can. However, is it a prerequisite for Salvation? Absolutely not.
The idea of â€śrepenting from your sinâ€¦â€ś is a bad byproduct of many IFB churches that have put more stock in the number of people down at the altar sobbing after a sermon than they have in the Word of God. It is the result of a focus on the numbers of people saved in a serviceâ€¦ and if you donâ€™t have many visitors because youâ€™re crazy, then make the people in your congregation doubt their Salvation so they can come down to the altar one more timeâ€”because last time they forgot about that once inâ€¦ Or they werenâ€™t serious enough about itâ€¦ Or maybe they didnâ€™t mean itâ€¦ Orâ€¦ You get the idea. Just saying *as a caveat, I am IFB