Whether people like it or not, there are two things that need to be understood about the US and Trump 1.) Not a theocracy. Trump is a secular leader that is beholden to the Constitution to defend Americans. 2.) Solawhatever was a clear and present danger that was taken out to defend Americans.
Itâ€™s like a jock dealing with a mentally handicapped kid thatâ€™s acting out. The jock could beat the kid down, but knows deep down it would be unfair and meanâ€”because everyone wants to feel sorry for the handicapped kid. Sometimes itâ€™s a better man that lets the mentally handicapped kid make a spectacle of himself and walk awayâ€”(except sometimes they accidentally do real damage to something because they just donâ€™t have the sense to know what they are doing.) For what itâ€™s worth, Trump is a jock that decided to smack the mentally handicapped kid around a bit. It looks bad, but itâ€™s because he was trying to make sure he didnâ€™t do any damage. But of course, everyone thinks heâ€™s mean and out of control.
The Bible is rife with instances where God uses something other than His physical hand to accomplish His goal. Was it His hand that blocked the Red Sea, or did He send a strong east wind? Itâ€™s like that old joke about the guy in a flood. A guy sat on his porch as the waters rose, and a rescuer came by in a truck, a boat, and a helicopter to rescue him, but he said, â€śNo, Iâ€™m waiting for God to deliver me.â€ť When he died in the flood and entered heaven, he asked God Why He didnâ€™t deliver him. God replies, â€śI sent a truck, a boat, and a helicopter.â€ť Faith is trusting God for the outcome, not sitting on your tookus waiting for Him to do everything.
I personally love how this conversation has metastasized into a few basic conclusions: 1.) Europeans trust God more than Americans. 2.) When Christ commended carrying a weapon, what he really meant that it shows a lack of faith, so donâ€™t do it. 3.) Trusting God only extends to not carrying weaponsâ€”not to lock in your doors, taking your keys out of your car, having an antivirus program on your computer, hiding your bank account PIN, or the myriad of other things that we do to protect ourselves. (weâ€™re still trusting in God when we do those things.) I wish I knew how you all are doing those little yellow emojiâ€™s because I would love to do an eyeroll one right now. And my KJV is a standard size, because my compact Glock fits just fine.
(Sorry that was too long) 6. Christ authorized arming oneself for self defense, yet you, (and others) attempt to suddenly make that wrong by misusing His not allowing Peter to defend Himâ€”because He was on His way to the cross and needed to go. Not because He changed his mind and self defense was now wrong.
B. McC. You stated: â€śYou all base your points on sentimentality, ignoring that the issue is about the theory of state and government. You invalidate the later by pareding the first. In fact, verses and points made related to the real topic are systematically dismissed ie ignored remarkablyâ€ť I am not certain of your postâ€”you seem to ignore many responses to questions outright and only superficially engage others, so I will condense and restate my answers in the hope you will respond to them. 1. Scripture authorizes self defense and the defense of others. (Actually, it mandates the defense of others. There have been plenty of Scriptural proofs posted in this thread.) 2. Scripture mandates a government to punish evildoers. If part of that governments solution is to allow self defense, it follows that self defense was authorized by God, as He sets up government. 3. The â€śteamâ€ť of security for that Church was armed in accordance with government regulations and acted well within the bounds of points 1 and 2. 4. This IS a fallen world in sin. That was never argued. 5. However, it seems that your point is that â€śin a perfect world we wouldnâ€™t need armed security teams,â€ť is based on your misunderstanding of point 4. 6. Christ authorized arming oneself for self defense, ye
John UKâ€”I fdo not feel your passage is reflective of a goal for Christ to disarm Christians, (antichrist maybe...) simply put, that tells Christians to follow the lawâ€”so unless your society deems possession of a weapon and self defense unlawful, that wouldnâ€™t apply.
but it brings up a questionâ€”going back to the OT when it was unlawful for an Israelite to possess a sword and they rebelled, was that not trusting in God?
John UK You say â€śI can also show you from scripture (NT) where God instructs about law-keeping and justice and punishments.â€ť But unless I missed some posts, most of those I have seen weâ€™re in reference to interpersonal conflict and not containing criminal behavior. Please correct what I may have missed. (As I said before, I am on sporadically and the app only loads the last few dozen or so comments,)
B. McC... Maybe Iâ€™m reading it wrong, but it seems like you accused me of misleading with the passage and at the same time still have not answered the question. So, again; When Christ told the apostles to sell a cloak to buy a sword if they didnâ€™t have one, to which possessing a weapon was not only lawful, but prudent, what was His goal? Useless weight? Cutting cheese? Starting a legally instituted police force? Or personal protection?
B. McC.... What? That wasnâ€™t remotely clear. Jesus wasnâ€™t promoting a police state to which He was in charge. (Although many hopes he was, to their mistake,) He told the disciples to carry a sword because it was not only legal, but prudent.
I know I have missed some of the responses to this, but the app only loads the last few dozen, so, if Inam retreading ground covered, I apologize. UKâ€”Iâ€™m not certain how things work where you are, but in the US, NO one, law enforcement or military, is ever taught to shoot to wound. (Unless riot control using rubber bullets,) This goes for civilians as well, in a litigation-centered society the laws have made intentionally wounding someone a crimeâ€”understand why; if you are using a deadly weapon, it implies the need for deadly force. If it could have been solved without deadly force, why use a deadly weapon.
And to B. McC... a poor society who to entrust citizens to carry a sword?
â€śThen said he (Jesus, in case you didnâ€™t realize,) unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.â€ť Luke 22:36