I'm off to watch the old movie, Gone with the Wind on Turner Classics, but be back tomorrow for some more chat!

I know the feeling of meeting those blessed people. They indeed are humble, pious and a wonderful blessing to be around. I'm enjoying your posts on here as well.

As a FYI, during my trip to Russia where I spoke at the invitation of the World Bank regarding one of our technology companies, I took a couple days to research the Reformed church in Russia. After some digging, I learned of an amazing small flock growing in several former Soviet countries.

This week, I was informed by a friend, that there was an article recently published about this group here:

http://www.rfpa.org/downloads/8403.pdf (see page 60)

My hope is that the posting does not filter back to Russian authorities and cause them any harm, but I actually spent time with one of the Elders referenced in the article and he was a great blessing to me.

Don't let JD's frustration with the truth be a stumbling block for you. His comments are generally in error and not to be taken seriously.

JD, you quoted me saying:

"Christ calls Lazarus to come forth...before which he was totally dead. His will was dead, his body was cold and lifeless."

Then you wrote:

The soul exists outside the body Walt and does not sleep and is the seat of our will. If he restored Lazarus to life, he reunited the soul and body. Lazarus could hear the voice of the son of God and respond.

I thought you believed that man's soul and will was dependent upon Christ's sacrifice on the cross, and His shed blood as an atonement for our sins.

How could Lazarus' death (e.g., sin) be fully paid for until the promises of the covenant of grace was fulfilled in Christ? Are you saying that Lazarus' sin was fully forgiven before Christ's death, burial and resurrection?

I saw the same thing and could not believe my eyes...where did he get that from?

Another one that threw me was when JD wrote the following:

"It says nothing about him coming to free the will! You are reading that into it because of what you need for it to say.

When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, he responded to his call to "come forth" but he came bound in his graveclothes because he was able to. It was then Jesus told them to release him and let him go."

In the threads prior the discussion was on free will. Think about JD's quote for a minute.

Imagine that Lazarus is completely dead (which is similar to the will of the natural man which people claim is totally "free"). Christ calls Lazarus to come forth...before which he was totally dead. His will was dead, his body was cold and lifeless.

"What is wrong with this picture you are painting? Is all truth contained in reformed writings? Well, according to you it must be. What is different between you and the Catholics who have said the common man cannot understand the Scriptures without the churchs interpretation and approval."

Scriptures teach us:

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1Jn.4:1

"Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake." Titus 1:11

"Hear now my reasoning, and hearken to the pleadings of my lips." Job 13:6

"And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction." Jer.32:33

"But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you." Rom.6:17

..."Here in Mark 10:9, Christ answers the original question put to him by the Pharisees in Mark 10:2. No, it is not lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause, for what God hath lawfully joined together, let no man unlawfully put asunder for every cause.

Christ, therefore, condemns all divorces that are not based upon a lawful cause which He now proceeds to make known to His disciples.

III. The Argument For Divorce Due To A Particular Cause (Mark 10:10-12).

A. The disciples of Christ follow up with more questions once the Lord has gone into the house. To them, the Lord gives a clear response as to the lawful ground for a divorce (as we compare Mark 10:11-12 with Matthew 19:9).

In Matthew 19:9, the Lord who instituted marriage gives His own divine warrant for a lawful divorce and a lawful remarriage.

..."Married couples are not to view themselves as two separate individuals, but as one flesh—one flesh by way of an enduring covenant (“till death do us part”) which oneness is illustrated in their physical intimacy. Thus, a marriage that has two individuals that do not enjoy being with one another, and do not have the same spiritual, familial, financial goals is a complete paradox.

Two people heading in two different directions (though lawfully married) is a paradox within the divine institution of marriage. Our earthly marriages are to be a living, breathing picture of the heavenly marriage between Christ and His Church.

Do our marriages so reflect the love that Christ has for His Church and the submission that the Church has to Christ that our children are able to understand these spiritual truths?

Or are they confused and driven away from Christ due to the dissension, anger, and warfare that so often manifests itself in our marriages? Christ argues that since marriage makes a man and a woman one flesh, divorce for every cause is not taught in Scripture.

"And who but these self proclaimed apostles ordained that sound bible doctrine was heresy? The Watchtower Society does the same thing and by their fiat, you are the helpless heretic."

Actually, since I understand history, the Watchtower Society deny the diety of Christ, and this was another old heresy identified...called Arianism.

I hope you are not also teaching arianism on this site. That would indeed be a little too much to handle.

At that point I would have to circulate a petition to see if we could get enough people together to vote you off, but if that did not work, then I would as a Church court to review your comments, and have they declared a heresy like they did with the Arians.

Opps, that would be a church court judicial decision, and since you reject all history and mere decisions of ministers, I guess that would go nowhere as well. You are an island unto yourself JD, and don't be sad, you are not the only one that rejects all church testimony of Christ outside the Canon.

Obviously, I am not telling you what to believe regarding the gospel, and certainly do not need another massive argument on here with another Arminian and Pelagian teacher. The Lord knows there is enough on this site who teach the same thing, but have no earthly idea what an Arminian, Pelagian or Roman Catholic believes or teaches. Thus, they would absolutely reject being labeled and absolutely can prove with Scripture they are just a Bible Believing, Scripture Posting Christian.

Fine, understood and not a problem. But I would encourage you not to side with JD's position just because you believe he teaches the biblical view of jusitification, original sin, sanctification and the true gospel. Rejecting all historical testimony, and favoring only modern testimony is silly.

Also, regarding free will, what does this mean, if your will is totally free and not subject to the powers of Christ:

..."Men, do we treat our wives as if they are bone of our bone and flesh of our flesh? Do we love our wives as our own flesh? Divorce for every cause cannot be the intent of God when God Himself made the woman from the man’s rib that she might be near his heart in the sacred estate of marriage.

3. Marriage is a dutiful institution (“For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife” Mark 10:7). The duty of the husband is to leave and to cleave. To forsake all other earthly relationships (in comparison to the devotion he has for his wife).

Marriage above all other relationships (even above the parent-child relationship) is to be cherished according to God’s institution. Of course a woman is likewise to leave and to cleave to her husband as well. Parents, we must let our children go when they become married and not unnecessarily interfere in their lives. If marriage is above all other earthly relationships, certainly there is no room for divorce for every cause.

"However, do not insult me by posting the writings of fallible men and saying they alone have the light from God and we must bow to their wisdom."

Well, of course not, we would never place your brilliant commentary on the Scripture aside those of other commentaries...some being exactly what you teach as mere man and some being exactly opposite of what you teach.

No, JD, not you for goodness sake. You are a revelation unto yourself. No man in history has ever taught what you teach or believe...that would be a historical testimony and of course you firmly reject all historical testimony.

It is clear from the comments of Derek that both he and you are Pelagian by your testimony, and it has been declared a heresy over and over and over again.

But, of course, just because you believe and teach as the Pelagians of old would never make you a Pelagian and heretic. No...I know, you are a Bible Christian!

“He hath called us according to his own purpose and grace, before the world began,” (2Tim.1:9).

“For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth” (Rom.9:11).

“Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world,” (Acts15:18).

“Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, swing, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure,” (Isa.46:10).

“In him we live, and move, and have our being,” (Act.17:28).

“He upholdeth all things by the word of his power,” (Heb.1:3)

“Our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased,” (Ps.115:3).

"You will not accept the truth that the sin caused the death when it was committed. Sin is an action: Therefore, an infant who can not know his right hand from his left can not sin, therefore he cannot die (Spiritually)."

Yes, I will not accept this view JD. It has been declared heresy by many counsels, but is alive and well in your mind since you reject all orthodox Church teachings and history, only relying on your perfect mind.

"This led to Pelagianism's condemnation as a heresy at several local synods, including the Council of Diospolis[2]. It was condemned in 416 and 418 at the Councils of Carthage.[3] These condemnations were summarily ratified at the Council of Ephesus in 431, although it was not considered a major act of that council. His strict moral teaching were influential in southern Italy and Sicily, where Pelagianism was openly preached until the death of his follower Julian of Eclanum in 455.[4] Pelagianism as a structured heretical movement ceased to exist after the 6th century but its essential ideas continued to cause dispute."

JD is a pelagian. They don't believe in the doctrine of original sin. They believe all men are born without sin by natural generation. They believe only in actual sin. Almost all Roman Catholics are semi-pelagian since they believe infants have no original sin, and through baptism are regenerated by God's grace, and when they reach the age of accountability they begin to commit venial sins. JD believes when an infant becomes a young boy/girl they will go from sinless to an actual sinner.

This is pelagianism and modern arminianism.

Actually, Calvinists do have an answer for those who are not able to hear the gospel of Christ. They can be saved by God's free gift of grace extraordinarily, but that ordinarily, men are saved through the preaching of the gospel and faith.

"As far as my limited knowledge can tell, everyone born into this world has the knowledge of God, but not everyone is obedient to the Holy Spirit, because they love their sin."

Are you espousing universal salvation and conditional election?

So what you are saying is that God has no say in who is saved and unsaved by His grace, it is all conditioned upon the knowledge, testimony and works of man?

This view would be very bad for those infants who do not have the knowledge, testimony and works to get saved. It would also leave out those billions of people who have not heard the gospel in North Korea, Mongolia, Central Africa and all over the former Soviet Union. Good thing you are American!

Or, you are saying that Christ died for all and all are saved?

So if this is the case than we can be thankful for this view as all men have gone to heaven, none have gone to hell, and all infants and those who have not heard the gospel message are saved since Christ died for all universally, and universally all are saved.

..."The Lord embarrasses the Pharisees by demonstrating that Moses did not allow divorce for every cause in Deuteronomy 24:1, otherwise he would have contradicted himself in what he previously penned by inspiration of the Holy Spirit in Genesis 2:21-24 (where divorce for every cause would make pure folly of the original institution of marriage).

For Christ argues:

1. Marriage is the oldest institution among man (“From the beginning of the creation” Mark 10:6).

2. Marriage is a divine institution given to man (“God made them male and female” Mark 10:6). Since marriage is a divine institution, no king, no court, no pope, no church has the authority to alter in the least what God declares to constitute a lawful marriage.

"Why is this? Because I do not speak in the manner of false prophets and self-righteous hypocrites..."

Actually, I and others on here would certainly beg to differ with your statement above.

You also said:

"What a phony piety, a sanctimonious sham!!...You rebellious, lying riffraff wish for we who are the true ministers of God to..."

It is another example, of yet hundreds on this site where SA has generally let you make these types of statements claiming to be a holy Christian. I'm glad I am seeing them remove your posts more often as you really have a problem with Christian piety, humility and love.

Yamil wrote:

"Ok Walt. Now its your turn. Let's see if you can do better."

"Robertson, a carpenter by trade, recently spent two years carving intricate designs on the wooden walls of Mount Erie Baptist Church on nearby Fairfield Avenue to illustrate stories from the Bible and symbolize Christian beliefs."

Why in the world does this not surprise me? Another Baptist premil who likely is seeing visions with literal interpretations of the bible!

..."C. The Lord Jesus then states the reason why God gave the command concerning divorce in Deuteronomy 24:1-4: due to the hardness and callousness of the hearts of men in looking for every reason to divorce their wives. In other words, because men had (in such a sinful state of mind) begun to divorce their wives for whatever cause they decided upon, the Lord specifically spelled out to them one lawful cause to divorce their wives: fornication (“some nakedness” that is found in the wife).

If she were not put to death for the fornication committed (because there were not sufficient witnesses), she may be divorced after having been given a certificate of divorce. Thus, the precept in Deuteronomy 24:1 is a curb to the licentious excesses of man’s hardened heart and a protection for the wife against the tyranny of a husband who had no lawful grounds for a divorce.

"The Calvinist (Walt and Seaton) favor divorce which would mean that one can lose his salvation, while the full blown Arminian (Abigail and Spiritual) propose the opposite which would affirm eternal security."

You are such a deceiver when you have no serious biblical arguments as a Pastor.

There is nobody that can explain the doctrine of marriage and divorce in a single post. That is why excellent Sermons have addressed the subject in great detail, as well as excellent books covering these verses.

The Arminian mind is a Roman Catholic mind in many areas of doctrine, worship, government and discipline. The Pastor of the local independent church acts as a local Pope where his authority is final with no right of appeal. The final arbiter in independency is the Baptist Pastor and his authority, as is the Pope and his authority.