I'm historical post mill and do place significance on the order of events rather than dates.

In terms of order of events, I believe we are at the end of the 1260 year period, or near the end, and the next phase will be the killing or silencing of the witnesses (e.g., testimony).

After this I believe the Papacy will take a significant hit where one-tenth part of the city falls and the comparable picture here is the time of Elijah in the battle on mount Carmel. A large part of the papist leaders are going to take a hit which will be viewed as a very significant event to the world.

On the heals of this is the resurrection of the witnesses which likely will be a small portion of the Jews in the restoration of Israel. Very much like the return from exile under Zerubbabel and Jeshua where 46,0000 of them came back. It was a long time before Nehemiah came back so likewise it will be similar, but will start with a remnant.

These order of events take place at the end of the 1260, then the 1290 (30 years later) then the 1335 (45 years) and going into the 45 year restoration period of covenanted Israel perhaps can be seen in Psalm 119-121.

I just finished the old testament again yesterday (38 times so far) and the more I go through the minor prophets the more I see a sense of fear coming over me. With a daily systematic read cover to cover, it is very interesting how the old testament is unfolding in this generation and future generations, but the picture is unnerving from what I read day by day.

Nevertheless, unto our biblical scholar Abigail who loves to quote verses in the exact order to promote her Arminian presuppositions. She said:

"It is not boasting to say that God demands cooperation and participation with Him in His plan of salvation." and "2. Agreed, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. He is born of the Spirit after he repents, is baptized, and is filled with the Holy Ghost (in that order)."

I've said on here it is ordo salutis that these people mess up day in and day out. They really believe it is their own righteousness, which they believe do exceed the righteousness of the pharisees, as the first step to trigger God's plan of salvation.

Help me understand your comments here:

"The Calvinist state: "For God so loved the elect..."

The Bible states: "For God so loved the world..."

This is really interesting that you believe God loved the world in the literal sense, as the verse continues:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son..."

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (Jn.15:19)

I know you are going to say that Christ was only referring literally to the Apostles whom He chose, and God the Father really loved the whole world that He gave His son to save the World, but the World rejected Christ at the age of accountability. There was no original sin (I think you believe this, but I am not sure) inherited, and thus children cannot die as they have no sin (which is death) until they "choose" to sin at the age of accountability. I'm trying to tie this theory together, help me.

From what I have been reading he has attempted to explain the background of typical Arminian and Antinomian preachers, plus outlined a list of logical arguments used by those in debate to deceive the audience without proving substantive proof texts. As you know, this is common among the Arminian and Pelagian followers in the past, present and likely in the future.

From what I have been reading, those who are always screaming and calling everyone liars need only to examine their own writings to see one of the arguments he outlined below.

Perhaps you should study these issues further as it will give you a solid understanding of how your debating style works only with the weakest brethren, but most who have a knowledge of Scripture and the true Gospel only find your methods exhausting.

Check out this comment from Yamil:

"Yeah, tell that to your pastor and see if he will be convinced. It's kinda like me saying that I am not a JW. I just happen to believe in the 144,000, that Jesus is not God, and that there is no hell."

Well, it is all starting to make a lot of sense now after his confession. I can see why he is really struggling with the true gospel of Christ!

This poor Pastor has lost his way, and only the true gospel and God's effectual calling can bring him unto a saving knowledge of Christ.

You have done, and are doing, a wonderful job on here. I have seen a great testimony from you over the past several months since I came back to visit. It is obvious the Lord has been working His mighty, saving faith in you.

I can see the assurance of your salvation shining through, and what blessing it must bring you to know that the true gospel of Christ effectually called you and brought you unto a saving knowledge of Christ. Indeed, there is no greater feeling than to fall to our knees and weep before a Holy, Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent King.

Our weak and frail mind, heart and tongue can never be brought equal to the righteousness of Christ, even the 1% as the Arminian claims is our duty, our responsibility and our work required.

Indeed, when we have reached the knowledge of total depravity before a perfect, holy and all powerful God, we can only humble ourselves and plead for Christ's righteousness to be judically imputed to us sinners. The Judge has come to eliminate the eternal death sentence we have been given since Adam, and He has risen us unto life everlasting by His perfect love for us.

I just picked up 6 sermons on the topic of divorce and remarriage. They cover in detail every passage on the subject from Scripture, as well as many of the arguments I have seen below. I'm going to dig into the topic over the next couple weeks and see if my mind will change based upon the "exegesis" that has won you over by Yamil. I cannot wait to see how he fairs against the other Pastor who I'll be comparing to his commentary on this thread.

The Scriptures will be the foundation for every argument he has used, and if my presupposition gets turned upside down, I will let you know.

Let the research begin! My mom divorced my father over adultery, and the Catholic church would not grant her a divorce as, like you, they believe it to be unlawful...even with adultery. She believes Rome and never married again so not to go to hell and only purgatory.

You don't really believe someone is justified and sancified at the same time do you?

"Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified". Romans 8:30

This is the "ordo salutis" that they are blinded to, which in turn forces them to make fallacious arguments of evasion as above."

First, let me say how absolutely delighted I am in reading your posts. They are excellent!

Second, I have known DB for a very long time and he is a real student of God's word and has brought the true gospel to this sight to His Almighty Glory! Let us Praise the Lord for His grace.

Finally, I was at our Lord's Day worship last weekend when during our evening Psalm signing a young girl asked the group a question. She was so frustrated with the Arminian girls telling her it was 99% grace and 1% effort by man to accept Christ. She asked how do you respond.

I asked to explain. She must understand ordo salutis and explain to these goofy people how a dead man is brought to life. It is only one way...regeneration comes first, and this is Chris alone!

Please try to use the correct passages when we are talking about regeneration and justification. Although these words are perhaps foreign to you, these fall into line with the doctrine of salvation. Sanctification and mortification come after justification, not with justification.

Taking the clear distinctions I posted and then have you post a bunch of Scriptures in an attempt to look cool is hardly what I was expecting.

"If you do not agree with the pastor, the solution is simple: Find a different church."

This is the modern day Pastor's version of discipline. Don't like what I preach, go down to the church next door!

Every Pastor has their own government, their own doctrines, their own worship and all are causing nothing but division, disunity and schism.

Although I knew that it would not be long before I was shown the door with the Pastor saying, "If you do not agree with the pastor, the solution is simple: Find a different church." I found it better to present the truth on form of worship and form of government, and when there was no response, just left.

There was no sense to try to create an appeal to his decisions as appeals do not exist in his form of government. In the independent congregation, all appeals are unlawful and "If you do not agree with the pastor, the solution is simple: Find a different church."

Abigail teaches: "For many are called, but few choose."
THE BIBLE TEACHES: 'FOR MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN.' (Matt. 22:14)

Abigail teaches: "Make your decision for Christ.”
THE BIBLE TEACHES: 'All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.' (Matt. 11:27)

Abigail teaches: "I accepted Jesus as my personal saviour."
THE BIBLE TEACHES: 'Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you (John 15:16). Also: But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, to reveal his Son in me.' (Paul's testimony in Galatians 1:15,16)

Abigail teaches: "God can't save you unless you let him, it is your choice."
THE BIBLE TEACHES: 'So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy...Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.' (Romans 9:16, 18).

“I will do all my pleasure.” Isaiah 46:10.

“None can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?” (Dan.4:35).

“I have purposed, I will also do it,” (Isa.46:11).

“As I have purposed, so shall it stand,” (Isa.14:24).

“Not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,” (2Tim.1:9).

“For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,” etc., (Rom9:11).

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me,” (Jn.6:37)

“Many are called, but few are chosen,” (Matt.22:14).

Can you tell me how free in real terms is the "free will"?

Can a man freely choose not to sin in thought, word or deed before or after salvation?

I know that Spiritual and Abigail believe that man has a total free will and they have chosen not to sin in thought, word or deed after salvation, but I would like your Roman Catholic view on how free is free that you speak about in reality?

Free will means a lot of things to a lot of different people, from the extremes of a hyper Calvinist on one side to the perfect nature of a tongue speaking, holy spirit filled heart, mind and soul on the other side who are sinless.

In history we see the priests following much of the same works righteousness, claiming Christ and God's grace only to ignore the true gospel of Christ's righteousness to alone save unworthy sinners!

The problem with your views is as you lord over your flock, and forbid them the power to appeal your discipline, I can only fear for the dear sheep in your autonomous church. There was an Arminian Pastor, such as yourself who lorded over me at one time, and I challenged him to appeal his decision. Like all of your autonomous Pastors who control your flocks without appeal, he could only shake his head that in his independent government there is no appeal from his discipline. Like a little Pope, the buck stops there!

Sorry Dr. Spin, I have no interest in Popery whether it is practiced at your local independent, autonomous church where you lord over the flock, or at the Papacy where he claims final authority.

No, an "assembly of ministers" at the state level is called a Synod if you want me to get technical.

Their convention is our Synod where a General Assembly would be at the national level. A presbytery is made up only of two or more local or regional local congregations or Sessions.

Spin it however you want, and I am certain you would have been one of those to walk out in protest that the rules violated your cherished local autonomy, but for those who like to "play that the local church is the highest authority" just ceaded control to a State convention governed by rules making the decision binding...this is Presbyterianism!

Ok, spin it how you like but they are acting like Presbyterians, except of course those who walked out in protest that the new rules VIOLATED LOCAL AUTONOMY, and that was my point!

"Six other churches left the state convention in protest of the new rules, saying the new rule violated local autonomy, according to The Associated Press. ..."

Does this mean the other baptist and independent churches are adopting Presbyterian government?

If this is true...everyone stand up and say Amen brothers and sisters! I would encourage all baptist that believe in the sole authority at the local level to go ahead and leave the state convention, as it looks like Presbyterian government to me and I am just delighted. It is indeed not a perfect form of divine presbyterial government as found in Scripture, but they are getting closer.

It was just a matter of time. At least they see an assembly of ministers works as God intended it to be as revealed in presbyterian government.