1JO 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
ROM 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me(that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
JAM 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
PRO 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
ECC 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
"Your comment about being sinless is wrong and i believe you should seek God for clarity as another user has said. no one is trying to persecute you."
This is a perfect example of how Abigail is destroying the truth of Scripture with her selective quotes and belief that all men can be perfect in this life.
Can you share with me the other user is that has said man can reach a perfect sinless state in this life and that I should study this point? I have missed the quote and would like you to copy it for me so I can see who said it.
"V. This corruption of nature, during this life, does remain in those that are regenerated; and although it be, through Christ, pardoned, and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.
VI. Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto, does in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner, whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God, and curse of the law, and so made subject to death, with all miseries spiritual, temporal, and eternal." (WCF,6:5-6)
We are obviously talking past each other. If you don't understand what an Arminian teaches, or semi-Pelagian teaches, or Pelagian teaches or what a Calvinist teaches it will be almost impossible to admit you are one. The point about this hollywood person was he was also getting people to understand what they were before they could admit they were one.
I understand you believe you are just a Christian, and your views are just Christian. When I was a Roman Catholic and believed what the Roman Catholics taught I called myself a Christian. I know Mormons who also believe what Mormons teach but call themselves a Christian.
The point is that an Arminian is an Arminian by what they teach, as a Roman Catholic is a Roman Catholic by what they teach and a Mormon is a Mormon by what they teach. Yes, they can all proclaim they are just Christian, but it is by their fruits and doctrine we shall know them.
I'm just happy that more and more Southern Baptist pastors are understanding the distinctions between Arminianism and Calvinism and coming back to the reformed faith, and the true biblical Christian religion! You will come to the truth when the Lord reveals it to you, and this we know for sure!
If you require that I not use the word heresy, heretic or liar on the site as it violates your policy of toleration, I will do my best to withhold the use of those words. It is not my intention to make the weak stumble with the use of my words, and there are some weaker brethren who may be overly offended by the use of those words.
I know how important it is in an international business setting to be ever so careful about using the right words that will least likely offend another culture or their person. It can be deadly and even cause sustained torture.
In a political year, I can see too how our politicians watch ever so closely the daily polls and moderate their beliefs and views to fit the broadest number of electoral voters based upon toleration. Toleration is at the heart of what Christians have suffered and died for in our history, since they would not submit to tyranny or evil.
You see, when Abigail teaches: "Those who maintain we cannot attain unto sinless perfection do not strive for sinlessness because their belief forms a deadlock and they feel justified in their sins" and is able to deceive people on this site, I want to stand up to warn people she is teaching error. The same view was taught by Pelagius who was declared a heretic.
In regard to the thread, I did post on Sunday part of a sermon that made the distinction between how Leprosy is a mirror of our own sin, and that Christ chooses those whom He heals. Calvinism is growing amoung the Southern Baptist Arminian pastors, and the more Arminian pastors learn about Amazing Grace the more they will see Christ as the sole healer.
It is not important whether you think you are an Arminian since almost all Arminians I've met don't even know what it means. I saw a tv program recently where a former hollywood actor goes out into the streets and tries to explain to people they are sinners and going to hell. They deny it immediately, and then he walks them through the law showing examples how they fit perfectly through their own admission they are breakers of those laws. Once they see themselves breaking those laws, even in the slightest way, they recognize they are indeed sinful and going to hell.
You don't see yourself as an Arminian because you have been taught that your views are just Christian, and that being Arminian is for others who believe and teach the same doctrines as Jacobus Arminius. Ok, so you are not Arminian in your mind, but church history shows me you are teaching Arminianism whether you believe it and accept it or not.
Ok, is it ok to call someone a liar or heretic on this site? Please advise.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us...If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (1Jn.1:8,10)
Again, perhaps you don't know your history about Pelagius, or why someone teaching that they can reach a state of sinless perfection is an error.
Historically, the Church has declared these people heretics, and showed through the Scriptures that liars, deceivers will have their place in the lake of fire. For anyone to claim they have sinned in the past, but now are in a state of perfect sinlessness is a very dangerous view for many who are weak.
Are you familiar with the doctrine of pretended toleration? Do you think it is sinful to tell someone who is a continued teacher of heretical views they are a liar and deceiver?
I understand if you reject all church history and believe it is just any old opinion, but my question was is it an error for one to call someone a liar and heretic on this site if church courts prove it to be true, founded in Scripture?
Please don't try to play tricks with the readers mind. If you are going to teach that Jesus healed everyone who came to Him, then you need to show this in principle. This is a doctrinal issue, as your teaching demonstrates that all who are sick and have need of a healing can come to Christ for guaranteed healing.
Again, as an Arminian, you place the grounds of one's salvation in their coming to Christ for a healing, and teach that all healing is in the hands of the individual. Thus, you lead others to believe, all those who were ever sick came to Christ and were instantly healed.
This same view is taught by the Arminians who say that all one has to do is believe, make an alter call, and they have guaranteed salvation or healing.
The problem with this view is that many have come down the isle to be healed or saved, and never been saved or healed. This is exactly because salvation is of the Lord. Whether healing the sick or saving the lost, it is He alone whom calls, draws and saves.
Indeed, we are commanded to believe in Christ as the grounds of our salvation, but this means that we need to believe that Christ alone is the author of our salvation to have true saving faith.
To teach that everyone who is sick can be healed has never been true.
I am not sure if you were referencing my question to Abigail. If you believe that heresy is ok to promote on this site, I would like to reserve the right to question the author about their heresy, and point out the fact that if they teach it, they are a deceiver.
Abigail wrote: "Lyn, I have not claimed that we have not sinned. All have (past tense) sinned and come short of the glory of God. The NT is very clear that we are to stop sinning. The wages of sin is death. Teaching a sinning religion is very evil. Those who maintain we cannot attain unto sinless perfection do not strive for sinlessness because their belief forms a deadlock and they feel justified in their sins."
Perhaps you Moderator Gamma are not familiar with the Pelagian heresy and that you do not believe that when one brings the charge of heresy against another it is being faithful, not sinful and is not engaging in a personal attack.
When is the day coming, perhaps soon, that even the ministers will call evil good and good evil. It is one thing to attack a weak brother or sister who does not know, but another to charge one with heresy who speaks with authority on this site day after day leading others astray.
Yes, I'm sure of it. If conversly you believe that all Lepers who approached the Lord for healing were healed, then we would need some Scriptural proof. Abigail makes references to Matt.8:16-17 and leads people to believe that Christ healed "all that were sick". Obviously, this is the proof text, along with your reference Matt.12:14-15 and Lk.6:17-19.
So based upon these proof texts, you and Abigail prove that every one that ever came in contact with Christ was healed being "all that were sick" and "a great multitude of people out of all Judaea and Jerusalem, and from the sea coast of Tyre and Sidon".
I believe this view is an error. Why? Because Christ made it abundantly clear that faith saves and heals.
"And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way." (Mk.10:52)
"And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace." (Lk.7:50)
Faith did not, nor does it, exist in everyone person with Leprosy or that is sick on the planet, nor at the time of Christ. To lead people to believe that the Scripture teaches all that were sick or with Leprosy were healed is an error.
"The interesting fact is that your story states nothing about Christ choosing one leper over another."
Actually, I would encourage you to learn the Scriptures when you have extra time between preaching. The fact is that literally thousands upon thousands approached the Lord for healing, and many begged him, even reaching out to touch him to be healed, but only those whom He chose were healed.
In fact, He even chose to raise some from the dead, and I can assure you they did not have any choice in the matter. You might believe they believed when they were dead, and did some sort of alter call to prove their belief, but Scripture is pretty clear they were healed by the Lord's choosing.
"Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:" (Rom.9:19-22)
"As a Calvinist i was told that no way can one be a four pointer,it is five points or none !!!!
So much for having a Berean aspect to see whether these things match up to the Word of God !"
Yes, this is correct. There is no such thing as a 4 point Calvinist. The reason for this is that the Synod of Dort responded to the five points of the Arminians, and not just 3 or 4 points.
If one does not understand the 5 points of contention the Arminians (also called the Remonstrants) made then it would be impossible to explain being called a 3 or 4 point Calvinist. I can assure you that the Synod of Dort responded to all 5 points and did not respond to only 4.
Some may want to teach this, or believe this, but history proves otherwise. If someone has come up with a new argument or new Scriptures to support only 4 of the 5 responses the Synod of Dort made against the Remonstrants, then I'm sure the world is open to see the new arguments, but the extensive and detailed arguments the Synod made against the Remonstrants covered all 5 of their points of contention.
I'm going to be going to bed after this post as I want to do some more reading before I get too sleepy. I'll try to pick up any comments tomorrow if you repost.
In regard to infants, we are not told much beyond that God ordinarily saves through the preaching and reading of the word. The gospel message of Christ is generally the outward means of our salvation, and Christ being the foundation and grounds of our Salvation.
However, for those who do not ordinarily hear the gospel, as infants or those who have a disability, we can only have hope that the Father will justify them through His election. As a believer, I can give glory that I know most human fathers would do anything and everything to save their children, and this is the hope and faith I have in my Heavenly Father. I cannot for certain guarantee every mother and father that their son or daughter, whether infant or not, has gone into eternal life everlasting, because I have not been gifted omniscience or omnipresence, but I can certainly believe. I cannot charge God with sin for His decision, whatever it may be, but I can have hope that as my loving Father He does save every one He chooses, ordinarily or extraordinarily.
Can we assume that you don't believe that teaching false doctrine is a sin? So if you are in a sinless perfection, why do you deceive and are a false teacher?
Is not being a liar and deceiver sin? What about your pride of perfection, is this not sin?
"3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;" Does this mean you are of the devil when you lie and deceive on this site regarding your false doctrine?
You would be wise to get saved Abigail, and humble yourself before a Holy God who can stike you down as a false witness and teacher on this site.
You are leading a lot of weaker brethren into sin on here and need to repent and come unto the true saving knowledge of Christ. You cannot teach a false, heretical doctrine on here, and claim to be in the state of sinless perfection.
You remind me of reading Pelagius who was confirmed a heretic. This is serious heresy, and you need to repent.
"I think we can all say "Physician heal thyself...."!"
I could not help but chuckle at that one as it is so true. The sin of ignorance, misguidedness and backsliding for a Doctor has become an epidemic in this country!
Terry, nowhere in Scripture are we told why God even allowed Adam and Eve to sin using their own free will. Their choice was totally free and they knew no prior sin in the garden. God's creation of Adam from the dust of the earth, and Eve from the rib of Adam, was perfect in every way.
But Satan is evil, a deceiver and the wicked one. He is a master at murder and all things evil. He loves evil and hates righteousness. Why would he have been permitted to tempt Adam and Eve, and how could such a free will be tricked to break covenant with God?
Pride!!! When you see Yamil's posts, and Mike's posts, you can see the pride come through in the commentary. They have built a partnership of sorts, and you can see how they place man in almost a superior position over God. Pride has become a sin of the Arminian follower and is demonstrated by their prayers. You have probably heard of the Arminian prayer before, so I will not attempt to restate it here, but it is full of pride.
The whole of Scripture makes it abundantly clear that there is none righteous, no not one. Even for the Catholics to teach that the virgin Mary knew no sin, nor had sin in her from her youth is heretical.
Christ Jesus is the only one born into this world who knew no sin, and was a holy sacrifice by His shed blood.
As we know He was tempted in the wilderness by the Devil himself, and overcame all temptation to sin. He was a perfect living sacrifice for the sins of many, and all His elect, that were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.
Why does God choose some to eternal life and others to eternal destruction, we do not know? In our finite minds, can we challenge God to call Him unfair or evil for choosing some to honor and some to dishonor? God forbid, let God be Truth and every man a liar!
By His righteousness, holiness and glory are we made holy and one perfect man in unity. May all glory be given to God for He first loved us, and whom He elects is His perfect will...who are we to challenge our Creator, but foolish!?
I'm actually working on this climate issue with the World Bank and am addressing purely practical environmental damage to local population areas. Nevertheless, on a broad perspective, the lead consultants are all absolutely convinced it is an immediate issue for regional areas, and upcoming billions are going to be poured into "emergency" planning for disasters.
The money and power shift is in the infancy now, and guys like Al Gore are at the center of the global power grab for the untold billions chasing this new end times propaganda.
Whether it is Al Gore, or Jack Van Impe, on the television preaching the global collapse of civilization as we know it in the next 10 years, I find it fascinating they both have lots of books and tv/movie plans to tell the world.
"Such was our hopeless estate in our spiritual leprosy. But such spiritual lepers are those whom Christ came to cleanse (Mark 2:17).
B. The words of our Lord in Mark 1:41 are unfathomable: âAnd Jesus, moved with compassion, put forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean.â It is the love of the Lord that moved Him to cleanse the leper. His mercy was aroused by the desperate need of this leper, and His mercy was shown in touching one who was declared to be untouchable. As our Great High Priest Christ touched us and identified with us and became like us so as to be touched with the infirmities of man. Christ became as it were the chief leper in bearing all our leprosy (2 Corinthians 5:21)."
Cleansed From The Leprosy Of Sin Mark 1:35-45 Covenanted Reformed Presbyterian Church, Albany NY October 28, 2007 Rev. Greg L. Price
The point of this sermon is that it is absolutely impossible for a leper to cleanse himself, even if he believes he has the most powerful free will in the world. He can will all he wants to be clean, or even deny he has leprosy, but if he is stricken by God with leprosy, only Christ can wash Him clean!
"So likewise those infected with the dreaded disease of sin are condemned to die apart from the sovereign intervention of Godâs grace and mercy that is found in Jesus Christ alone.
***Here then we see before our eyes a living portrayal of the desperate need of man and the sovereign grace of Christ in cleansing this man of his sin and his leprosy.***
4. Furthermore, note the faith this leper had in the Lord Jesus. âIf thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.â He believed that Christ was able to cleanse him. He did not question the power or authority of Christ, but simply acknowledged that it was Christâs sovereign prerogative to cleanse whom He chose to cleanse. It was not the leperâs right to claim the cleansing, but Christâs sovereign grace to dispense cleansing to whom He willed (Titus 2:14).
Just as leprosy made the leper utterly detestable in the sight of people, so sin has made us utterly detestable in the sight of God. There was nothing in us to commend us to God in our wretched estate of spiritual leprosy. In that estate we only had fellowship with fellow lepers who were likewise doomed to death. We had no hope of being cleansed of our leprosy in ourselves or in some spiritual guru. We were without hope in this world."
"Did you notice what the leper asked Christ to do for him? Did he say, âIf thou wilt, thou canst heal me?â No, he said, âIf thou wilt, thou canst make me cleanâ or âcleanse me.â
Considering all other bodily illnesses that the Lord healed, it is only leprosy that is said to be cleansed rather than healed (Matthew 10:8). Why?
I would submit to you that it was particularly leprosy of all other diseases that God appointed to be a picture of spiritual death and separation from God and Godâs people. Lepers were the living dead. Leprosy was a graphic picture of our ugliness and deformity before God due to sin in our lives. It was a living parable of the state of our soul in that we were dead in our trespasses and sins while yet alive physically.
Leprosy was a foreshadowing of that final separation that would befall all of those who were cut off from God at the Day of Judgment and cast into everlasting torment. For that reason, lepers needed to be cleansed and not merely healed, just as sinners need to be cleansed of their sin (Psalm 51:7; 1 John 1:7).
Dear ones, leprosy was in ancient times an incurable disease even as sin is. One was doomed to die with that disease unless God intervened."
"2. In either of these cases of leprosy, those so infected were the living deadânot simply because of the horrible effects upon the body, but also because of the social alienation it brought with it. For no other bodily illness had the same social isolation imposed upon it by Godâs Law as did leprosy.
Under Godâs Law, those infected with leprosy were cut off from the people of God in a very specific and drastic ways. The only separation more drastic than leprosy was death. For that reason it was a living death. The leper could not live with his family nor be cared for by his family. He was to dwell alone outside the camp of the people (Leviticus 13:46).
Furthermore, he was to warn any that might approach him that he was a leper by crying out, âUnclean, unclean.â The only social fellowship that lepers had was with that of other lepers. Leprosy was indeed a dreadful picture of death and separation.
3. But why was the leper to cry out, âUnclean, uncleanâ rather than âSick, sickâ or âIll, illâ? I would submit to you that there was much more to the isolation of the leper than the mere contagious nature of the disease."