Mike wrote: True, we are indeed becoming more like civilized bleeding Europe as time goes on, John. Too many here pushing in that direction. One world views and all that. The results show.
Precisely, Mike. I wouldn't give you an ice lolly for Europe or any country within Europe. Nor indeed for any other country in the entire world. Since conversion, I am seeking something better, a heavenly city, something on the other side of Jordan, Beulah Land, way beyond the blue.
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.... 1 John 2:15
Frank wrote: Yes brother, it is hard for me to imagine a world like this, but it will happen. Mark 13:12 ‚ÄúNow the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.‚ÄĚ Luke 21:11 - And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. Matthew Chapter 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Come quickly Lord Jesus, come quickly.
Amen bro, I'm glad someone appreciates the direction I'm going in with my comment. I don't need to watch a western to know that Americans have a tendency to get their arms out whenever I say anything negative about the decadent west. Any old excuse will do, and the pea-shooters come out, because that's the American way of doing it.
Sure, I know all about it. You've got Black Lives Matter and 'you've' got American Pride.
Acts 4:25-31 KJV (25)¬† Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? (26)¬† The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. (27)¬† For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, (28)¬† For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. (29)¬† And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, (30)¬† By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. (31)¬† And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Mike wrote: I wonder of what need this is, as the grocery is open and the shelves are nearly full. The guv is sending printing press money, and there is no excuse for not building up the larder, a bit at a time, and that without the hoarding we have seen. There is something about going to the ant, and not being a sluggard. Ordinary common sense as was done throughout history, to harvest in season so as to provide out of season. Christians in particular have no excuse, and should be in consideration of their neighbors, who may have need in hard times.
Mike, think of the time when the grocery is closed and the shelves are empty. Desperate people will have desperate measures. I've seen this on a small scale in this country. The rich will empty the shelves of anything they might need for survival, and they would be the target of those who have nothing. There are very few Christians in Wales, so it is a dog eat dog society, a rat race, an every man for himself culture, a me, me, me attitude.
I'm only looking at this from the perspective of endtimes bro. And the pandemic will not be alone in that case. There will be food shortages, no fuel, no transport, war, floods, out of control fires, and so on.
B. McCausland wrote: Brother, never lose sight that the full stops come set by the hand above, though the common folk might have to go through seasons as being "sheep unto the slaughter" "As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter." Let the Lord be our strength
Thankfully sister, any speculations regarding the effects of C19 will soon be tested, say within the next twelve months, and then we shall know for sure. It makes no difference, or should make no difference, to doing what the Lord has for us to do; never should we construct signs saying, "Normal servanthood will be restored as soon as possible".
And yes, I agree, that persecution of believers ought be the normal rather than the rarity. Light always attracts the moths at night and they go crazy. To what end I know not.
B. McCausland wrote: Many a time in history authentic believers pondered in the same lines you write here, yet let's remember that evil and jugdements often come in 'tides' or waves that come and go.
Yes indeed, sister. I do not ponder for very long on it, just enough to give me a few thoughts. Such as...
With stockpiling of weaponry and ammunition in America, and with the economy and jobs severely affected by lockdown procedures, with this leading to near starvation for some families, and supposing the pandemic cannot be controlled any other way, and the guv not willing to let it run and do its worst, thusly the austerity continues until some folks just cannot cope any more, and they see stealing food as the only way of survival, at gunpoint of course, maybe stealing money, cars etc., maybe forming into groups or gangs, living in forests like Robin Hood, robbing the rich so that their families can eat, and so on and so forth.
I believe some futuristic films, which I never watch, portray such a time, when the world is unrecognisable compared to what it is today. A forewarning? Some sort of weird prophecy?
I see this morning that the leader of Hong Kong is saying that their hospitals are likely to soon get swamped with C19 cases, making it impossible to treat them all.
I also see that some countries exited lockdown too early and now they are suffering the consequences of a second wave of cases.
I also see that this pandemic is not normal, and could go on for years. We may never get back to what we call normal, which makes me wonder if it is all part of the preparation for the second coming of Jesus Christ and the end of the world.
I also claim that it don't bother me none. I am ready for the end, and welcome it. Come Lord Jesus.
danfromtenn wrote: The following is a good example of using the kind of symbolic language I have in mind: 2 Samuel 23:16-17 KJV And the three mighty men brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: nevertheless he would not drink thereof, but poured it out unto the LORD.  And he said, Be it far from me, O LORD, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. You are supposed to know it's symbolic!
Hi Dan, help me out here, please.
Are you sure that David uses symbolic language to describe the water that the three men brought from Bethlehem as the blood which was still running quite freely through the veins of the three men? What is he saying? And how does that compare to the blood of Jesus Christ, which he says we have to drink (either literally or spiritually) in order to abide in him and he in us?
John 6:56 KJV (56)¬† He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Frank wrote: Brother John! I don‚Äôt know which woman you are referring to but your conclusion is right on. John Knox is quoted as saying the below: ‚ÄúTo promote a woman to bear rule, superiority, dominion, or empire above any realm, nation, or city, is repugnant to nature; contumely to God, a thing most contrary to his revealed will and approved ordinance; and finally, it is the subversion of good order, of all equity and justice.‚ÄĚ Christians often criticize those who make God‚Äôs word progressive, but then many of us do exactly that when it comes to issues like this. Even saying what women's roles are in this life is labeled hate speech by many.
Thank you Frank, and thanks for the quote from John Knox.
Yes, the lady in question whom I was referring to, is the Scottish equivalent of a prime minister, being a devolved parliament, the same as it is here in Wales. Of her, wiki says...
'Nicola Ferguson Sturgeon is a Scottish politician serving as the fifth First Minister of Scotland and the Leader of the Scottish National Party since November 2014. She is the first woman to hold either position.'
Mike wrote: A needful question, if you don't mind, John. The church is the body of Christ. He is the head of the church, we are the body, the church. How then the bread become for us what we already are?
Hi Mike, no I don't mind, bro.
If you don't mind, I would like to answer with scripture:
1 Corinthians 11:24 KJV (24)¬† And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1 Corinthians 11:29 KJV (29)¬† For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
Key words here: "not discerning the Lord's body".
The Lord's Supper, or communion, is a great reminder to us, that Jesus has done it all. And that when he said, "It is finished," our salvation was complete, and all that is left to do is to appropriate it, and that by faith.
danfromtenn wrote: Noted. Good point. But brother, tell me what you think the disciples believed they were actually doing when they were taking and eating. Was it symbolic or what?
Bro, Jesus could have said:
...this represents my body.
but he actually said:
...this is my body.
Now if he was being enigmatic and secretive, you could say:
"He came unto his own (the Jews), but because he spoke to them in mysterious speech, deliberately done so that they could not understand it, his own received him not." expanded John 1:11.
Why would God send his Son into the world to save sinners, and then make it impossible for them to understand what he was saying?
Passover: at the passover meal, the sacrificial lamb had to be roasted and eaten, completely.
Now if the passover has been abolished in favour of the Lord's Supper, and with Christ being called our passover lamb, could we not eat the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world? That as we partake, and eat the bread, it becomes for us the body of Christ by faith alone? Thusly we eat his flesh and abide in him and he in us?
p.s. I don't think the disciples understood much until pentecost. They never even understood Calvary until the resurrection.
danfromtenn wrote: There were several times when Jesus spoke in ways that only those with spiritual eyes and ears could perceive the hidden truths being taught. Like in Matthew 13. Taking literally what is not intended to be literal (or should I say seeing only the physical aspect of a spiritual lesson) was and is a way God separates false disciples from true ones.
Absolutely, except you will find that in the Christian walk, you will find many different true Christians who hold different interpretations. However,
Matthew 13:36 KJV (36)¬† Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
The disciples of Jesus here knew full well he was spiritualising, all through Matthew 13, as you and me both do. Please note that, Dan. And so his disciples asked him to explain the parables.
But when he said, at the last passover, "Take, eat, this is my body..." none of them asked him to explain what he meant. Why not? Simply because they took him literally, and it was simple though strange. The purpose of eating unleavened bread in passover was quite different, so there is no parallel there.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: Read Psalm 107 and then say circumstances are not part of God‚Äôs dealings with men.
Bro US, when I first read this psalm, I said to myself, "Why, here is mine own testimony!"
Psalms 107:17-21 KJV (17)¬† Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted. (18)¬† Their soul abhorreth all manner of meat; and they draw near unto the gates of death. (19)¬† Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saveth them out of their distresses. (20)¬† He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions. (21)¬† Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!
There is no doubt in my mind that the Lord Jesus permitted a severe deterioration in my life, in order to box me in and get me to listen to him in a serious way. This was his goodness and wonderful works to the children of men, soon to be followed up by enlightenment of the Spirit, godly sorrow over sin, repentance, faith, and other things that came to me by grace.
How I wish that men and women would praise the Lord for his wonderful works in the lives of sinners and saints.
danfromtenn wrote: I believe we spiritually eat/drink of Him when we feed on His word (you are what you eat ... spiritually ). When we take communion we are picturing in a physical way a feeding on Him together and remembering His death till He comes. The body we feed on is a body of doctrine.
That's fine, but then you have to wonder why this happened:-
John 6:52 KJV (52)¬† The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
John 6:60 KJV (60)¬† Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
John 6:61 KJV (61)¬† When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
John 6:66 KJV (66)¬† From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
It seems to me that if Jesus was spiritualising, there would be no offence, and his disciples would not have departed from him for saying that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood. The fact that Jesus let them go shows that he was being literal, and they just couldn't cope with that.
Adriel wrote: Adversity. ‚ÄúThe honey of prosperity kills our graces‚ÄĒbut the vinegar of adversity quickens our graces. Musk, says one, when it has lost its fragrance, if it is put into the sink among filth‚ÄĒthat recovers it. So do afflictions recover and revive decayed graces. The more saints are beaten with the hammer of afflictions, the more they are made the trumpets of God's praises, and the more are their graces revived and quickened. Adversity abases the loveliness of the world which strives to entice us; it abates the lustiness of the flesh within, which strives to incite us to folly and vanity; and it assists the soul in his quarrel to the two former, which tends much to the reviving and recovering of decayed graces.‚Äú (Thomas Brooks) (Precious Remedies against Satan‚Äôs Devices)
It always reminds me of:
Psalms 119:67 KJV (67) Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept thy word.
It always behoves us to read, understand, and obey the word of God, lest we go astray, which requires affliction from Father to remedy it. _____________
Frank, dear brother, thanks for sharing that, it really made me smile, just picturing that.