Amen Christopher, that is exactly the problem with a phrase like that.
A much better phrase would be "once made a new creature in Christ, always a new creature in Christ". 2 Corinthians 5:17.
There will always be mysteries surrounding this, and some folks will end up on the borderline. But these two in the news at the moment, I think it is clear that neither of them will be coming back; they are like Lot's wife, turned to a pillar of salt.
Good morning Christopher and thanks for your post. I think you have got to the heart of the matter. There is far more to this than meets the eye.
When it comes to the expression "once saved, always saved", I don't know where it came from, but I personally don't like it. I don't even like the TULIP version which is the "perseverance of the saints". Mine own preference is the expression the "preservation of the saints", where the great Redeemer preserves all those he has adopted into his family and redeemed by the blood of his Son. Jude 1:1 for the word "preserved".
It is true therefore that once a person is saved by Jesus Christ, they cannot be un-saved.
It is also true that once a person is saved by God's grace, that grace will cause them to persevere until the very end. And their perseverance itself is proof of God's grace in their life.
But if you go back to the very root, you find preservation is there, and at back of preservation is predestination - the ultimate purposes and will of God from eternity. It is here, and only here, that we find the eternal security we need to have as human beings.
Simple wrote: Luke 12:8~9,2 Timothy2:12 I am sad and scared when this kind of things happen,e.g.Demas, King Saul(1Samuel10:6,9,15:35), and other 'draw back unto perdition'people(Hebrew 10:39,6:4~8).I pray GOD don't let them go too far to turn back. Come to Christ, and keep ask, seek, knock, believe, surrender.HE is always pitiful to these people!
Simple, I feel sure you are attempting to say something, but what it is I wot not.
Christopher000 wrote: Most disturbing is that it's been normalized within society. Nobody even turn their heads anymore. They celebrate it.
Hi Chris, it's a fact. And nobody (very few) turned their heads when Christmas pantomimes began, and The Dames took centre stage, all very funny - not.
The Christian community has a lot of clout (together) to make a stand against this sort of thing, and could achieve much. But, as is observed on this cross-section of christendom, there are only one or two who actually speak out against worldliness. And when they do, they (such as sc) usually get shot down by the IFB rep, Brother Unprofitable Servant.
Just think, Christopher. In fifty years time, the Olympic Games will have fully naked competitors, with men, women, transgenders etc. and it will be the biggest money-spinner in the world. And only sc can see that. The rest of us think it is all so funny. LOL.
Oh, it is soooooooo funny!
Am I being sarcastic? I don't know what you'd call it, but I do wish Zion would wake up, the snoring is enough to cause an earthquake.
Mike wrote: He's happy? Being reconciled to the world doesn't seem like much of a plan.
Mike, it is really no plan at all, as you say.
But I am trying to perceive what it is like for an unregenerate musician to play rock music (which of course is a big buzz) in a supposedly religious environment, where many young people are responding to what you're doing (or supposed to be doing - namely, worshipping Almighty God), where if you clap, they clap; if you lift your hands in the air, they lift their hands in the air; if you sing in tingues, they sing in tingues. Big ego thing, power thing, control thing.
Giving it up? Can't stand the daily hypocrisy!
Better off joining a proper rock band, smoke joints, wreck hotel rooms, be a lunatic, be a real unregenerate without a mask on. Have the freedom to be what he is, a sinner who wants to be a sinner.
Hebrews 3:17-19 KJV (17)Â But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? (18)Â And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? (19)Â So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Unbelief is the cause of perishing in hell.
Faith is the cause of having eternal life.
John 3:14-15 KJV (14)Â And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (15)Â That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Fred, do you believe in Jesus Christ? That he is the Son of God? That he died in your place, to bear away your sins? That he arose again from the dead to be a living Saviour for you? That he ascended into heaven where he intercedes for you? That he is coming again for you? That he is the only way to the Father? That you cannot merit salvation but that Jesus has merited it for you? That eternal life is a free gift?
If so, I exhort you to continue believing all these things.
Frank wrote: Yes brother, it is extremely common to hear bad language in my country.
Yes, I'm thinking of what you see in the fourth paragraph of the introduction to the article. It never began that way, but it could start off as something godly, like an imprecatory prayer, then slowly turned into a euphemism, then taken up by the secular world who use the name of God without thinking, until eventually the people of God, or professing believers use such in their everyday life, and never consider it as blasphemy. But it is a horrible thing to hear.
The majority of the British public, including me until my conversion, did not know that one of the most popular comedians of the day, Ken Dodd, continually blasphemed God in his routine by saying every so often, "By Jove." No-one knew what he was talking about - it was just an expression, an euphemism.
Fred wrote: John UK, Hear, hear, valid points you make via FB Meyer. I don't believe that the Lord would have believers struggle with a tortured conscience in regards to salvation or service unless there is ongoing backsliding. My question was with those like Harris in the article or the reported case with the late Canadian evangelist Charles Templeton that preached in large crusades and later turned from the faith claiming to be agnostic. I assume most on here would say he was never among the people of faith in Christ.
Good morning Fred,
Yes, you won't find one sermon on this site where the preacher indicates that a truly saved person may be finally lost. All broadcasters must adhere to the Articles of Faith of SermonAudio, of which one is:
"Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone without the addition of human works."
And faith comes from?
Hebrews 12:2 KJV (2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.