June wrote:
Bert,
The work of the Holy Spirit is vital to the conversion of a sinner. It is not our will, but His that saves us.

Sorry, I have been too busy this week to respond to your post. I had to think about it for a while.

John 6:44 says that God the Father must "draw" people to Jesus but what does that mean? To draw someone to something, you are attracting them to that something. God draws us to Jesus via the Gospels. Free will says that I can accept God's call or reject it. God does not force me in any way to follow His Son. Deut 30:19 encourages us to choose life but God does not force us to.

just a thought,

Jesus humbled Himself before the Apostles by washing their feet. Jesus said "Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me." I don't know why Jesus decided to do that but my place is not to question why. The Eucharist is Jesus' Body just as He said it would be.

"7 Rather, he emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
coming in human likeness;
and found human in appearance,
8 he humbled himself,
becoming obedient to death,
even death on a cross." Phil 2.

Yes, the Creator does humble Himself for reasons only He knows.

Jesus said "Do this in memory of Me." when He instituted the Eucharist. That is the center of the Mass.

As I said about Alphonsus Ligouri, I don't know him or his works but when you converse with a philosopher, you are bound to end up in a discussion that challenges you. I don't know if he was right or not. Perhaps someday I may

Complete rubbish. You may interpret the Catholic's actions as worshiping graven images but, may I remind you that athiests interpret our worshipping of God as worshipping a "sky fairy". Does that mean that you worship a sky fairy?

Michael,

Yes, we do have devotion to Mary and we honor her just like Jesus does. How is that idolatrous?

You have an interesting approach to logic, Michael. The Catholic Church believes that the God of Islam - Allah - is the same as our God the Father. The muslims disagree. Therefore, Catholics worship a false god. I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion, Michael, but it defies any loginc I have ever studied.

Just a thought,

I don't know Fr. O'Brien or if the quote you gave is out of context but if he is describing the Mass, that is what Jesus said would happen. He said "Do this in memory of Me.".

Michael Hranek wrote:
Bert
I kind of disagree with you here.
First, the adoration, the saying of Rosaries, the making of pilgrimages, the statues of the RCC's Mary put in a little shrine in the homes of RC families make your claim BOGUS.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Second, since you all practise idolatry it is quite impossible that RCs are really worshipping the Only True and Living God...you do know the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 841) RCs worships the same god as the Muslims anyway and since Muslims worship Allah a very false god there isn't a snowball's chance you could truly be worshipping God if you are worshipping with them.

Xenos wrote:
You're absolutely correct Bert. There are many gullible people who worship stone and alabaster statuettes, old bones, dead sinners and icons, pieces of toast and goodness knows what else.
They are called Roman Catholics.

There is another Commandment from God that you should know about:

Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor.

Jim Lincoln wrote:
They really got to lay of that Guinness in Ireland! Giving it to women and children, shame!
[URL=http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/_PDFArchives/roman-catholicism/RC4W0300.pdf]]]The Biblical, Catholic, and Occult View of Mary[/URL] and [URL=http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-314.htm]]]Exposing the Idolatry of Mary Worship: An Overview[/URL].

John Yurich USA wrote:
What a bunch of mentally deranged and psychotic moron Catholics in Ireland to believe that the Virgin Mary appeared in the sky. That was not the Virgin Mary but was in reality a demonic spirit masquarading as the Virgin Mary.

I do believe that Judas was repentant. He realized that what he did was wrong and he committed suicide (according to Matthew) as a result.

Ah, "the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of GOD is ETERNAL LIFE through JESUS CHRIST our LORD."

"God now commandeth all men everywhere to repent."

Does everyone repent? No, they do not. This is an example of God telling us what we need to do to obtain Salvation but He is leaving it completely in our hands as to whether we do what He tells us to or not.

"Whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Absolutely. But, a person who believes in Jesus can lose that Faith. There are all kinds of tricks that satan uses to tear us away from God.

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

Again, absolutely. But, once we have that rest, do we stay true to Jesus? If so, great! We earn everlasting life. If we don't, though, we throw the gift of everlasting life away.

John UK wrote:
But then there is 'saving grace' which is irresistible to those who receive it. Although we do 'make' an actual 'choice' in bowing before Christ, and laying down our arms of rebellion against him, the reality is that the offer is so stupendous that it cannot be refused. The love of Christ constrains us, and wins us. There is no defeating this great love of Jesus Christ. Besides, quickening comes FIRST.

I wasn't referring to Salvation, just God's love. I firmly believe that God loves all of us equally regardless of what we do or where we ultimately end up. Just as you would continue to love your son or daughter if s/he were to end up in jail for some hideous crime. The fact that s/he commited the crime does not effect your love for your child because that love is unconditional - just like God's.

Wayne,

Peter is front and center in Acts 15 (7 - 11). But, as I mentioned before, the Papacy evolved over time. There wasn't much need of a designated leader in the early days of the Church because it was tiny. As the Church grew, it bacame more and more necessary to formalize the infrastructure. Just as a small congregation can meet in a gym, large ones require a building dedicated to their worship.

Moderator,

WayneM wrote:
Bert,
Let me ask, do you think God is completely sovereign? If God is in complete control and "wanted" everyone to be saved, how could His will be thwarted?
If God is completely sovereign, how would be possible for anyone to not be saved if He "willed" that every single person be saved? After all, is God in control of the world or is He not? Doesn't the Bible teach God is omnipotent?

Don,

I agree with AW on this one. You seem to have an unusual definition of love. Of course God loves Judas as much as He loves Peter and the damned in hell as much as the Saints. God loves everyone equally. It is *OUR* decision as to whether we end up in Heaven or hell and while the decision to follow the crowd to hell saddens God, it in no way diminishes His love for anyone in that crowd.

Consider a mother whose son is executed for a horrific act. Do you think she loved her son less when she found out what he did? If she had a true love for him like God has for us, his actions would have had no effect on her love for him at all. And, though she would no doubt have been devastated by the verdict and sentence handed to him, she would have accepted that it was just and right. That doesn't mean that she wanted to see her son executed just that she recognized that, because of the decisions her son made, he reaped what he had sown.

God's love for us is absolutely immutable. Whether I end up in Heaven or hell, I know God will continue to love me absolutely and unconditionally.

Sorry, I got side tracked on a bunch of things

To answer your questions:

John 6:37 means exactly what it says: Jesus will not reject anyone who turns to Him. I think it says something further, though. It implies - to me at least - that the Father wants *everyone* to have eternal life. Since Jesus will reject no one, He is saying that *anyone* who turns to Him will be saved.

John 3:16 - Basically the same as 6:37.

John 10:28 - Ditto.

John 6:28,29 - This means that salvation is through Faith and Works. Since true Faith requires labor on our part, it is a Work of God.

To be quite honest, I'm not sure what to think. If you look at the thread I mentioned earlier, you can see where you responded to a post of mine (it isn't obvious that it was my post, but it is obvious that it is a response) yet there are no posts from me in the thread. I do remember posting my comments and if I accidentally "lost" the post, you wouldn't have responded to it, would you?

WayneM wrote:
Bert,
I just sent a note to sermonaudio about your posts being deleted. Maybe you could send one too. If you go to the bottom of the page and click on [email protected] you will get an E mail window and can send a note to them. Regards.

Sorry I took so long to reply to your post. I needed a few days to consider what you said.

You are correct and I apologize. I did not remember reading anywhere in the NT that Jesus is Divine and the fact that His Divinity was debated for so long lead me to believe that the NT was ambiguous at best regarding His Divinity. Your reference to Hebrews Chapter 1 has shown me my error. Thank you.