Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Mt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them (Israel) in parables?

Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Now, watch this!

Mt 13:15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Why is it given to them and not to the others?

Because they came to him, the source of spiritual iunderstanding and he taught them and the others did not!

Mt 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

0 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

John thought that Jesus Christ was offering himself as king when he wrote:

Joh 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed [is] the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Jesus Christ was not crucified because he claimed to be the saviour of the world but because he claimed to be the promised King of Israel. He did not come to conquer a people by force to rule over them but to he set up his kingdom and made it by invitation. He does not now and will not later rule over rebels. Everyone in his spiritual kingdom, the church, and everyone who will be in his physical kingdom later will have made a concious and determined decision to accept his rule in their hearts.

Pilot
Mr 15:9 But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?

The wise men
Where is he that is born King of the Jews? MT 2:2

The Roman soldiers
Joh 19:3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.

Israel
Lu 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this [man] to reign over us.

The Jewish rulers
Joh 19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.

He did not suspend the offer of the kingdom though and men must be born again to enter into it. Ther kingdom would have a spiritual quality and the king would not be present to rule physically at this time. He would call subjects into his kingdom by the gospel and citizenship would be by choice of individuals. Meanwhile, the kingdom of Satan would control the physical and there would be sharply division between the two Matt 12:26.

My main point:

Jesus Christ called the time in which this form of the kingdom would exist "the mysteries of the kingdom" Matt 13:11 and they are hidden from the wise and prudent and revealed unto babes.

Leaven in Scripture is mostly, if not always a corrupting influence.

What kind of silliness is this? Jesus Christ would not have had to come and die if it were not for sin. God proved all were sinners and while he was proving it, he proved that there is no difference in sinners and later he said that one sin was all it took to be a sinner, lost and condemned to hell. James 2:9.

Then someone comes along and says there is a difference in sinners and God respects one sinner above another, thus disagreeing with the God of heaven.

The treasure is Israel. the man is Jesus Christ, The hiding is the dispersion in AD 70, the field is the world, the price is his blood.

The points:

Ps 135:4 For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, [and] Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Mt 13:38 The field is the world;

2Co 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Ps 130:8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

There is no place that grace is likened unto leaven and works in secret.

(although I totally reject the thought that only people who hold to certain peripheral beliefs can be saved).
___

And I totally agree and have said it often. Men are saved by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ, nothing more and nothing less.

However, having said that, we know about this gospel by the record God has given us in his word. There are things said about Jesus Christ that one must believe. For instance, God bore record that he died for the sins of the whole world. He bore record that he, God, was propitiated by that one sacrifice for all the sins ever committed. God bare record that he died for the ungodly after proving though the previous 3 chapters that every single man, woman, boy, and girl who had ever lived with the one exception of his son, were ungodly. God bore record that Christ died for every man. He bore record that anyone who would come to him through Jesus Christ shall be saved. He bore record that every person is a candidate for salvation and what we have is his word on it.

Now, these gentlemen say that is not so and these men present themselves as teachers of Christianity. Is someone going to tell me the way of salvation is to deny the record that God gave of his son.

How important is the word of God in our salvation?

Must I always need to correct your deliberate dishonesty.

I said the kingdom of heaven was a period of time when the king was away and the kingdom was let out to stewards who must give an account when the king returns. Your comments made it seem as if I said the kingdom of heaven is leaven. This is very bold of you!
_

The kingdom of heaven is like unto, this and that. That does not mean it is that but it has similar characterictics of the thing mentioned. The church age harbors false religion and false relionists and the leaven is their false teachings. The main culprit had its beginning at Babel and its effects and influence is worlwide. Some 3 hundred years after the church began at Pentecost, Constantine created an environment that allowed that same paganism that existed before the cross to be christianize and become church doctrine. Enter Augustine! It has slowly, like leaven in bread permeated the whole loaf. At some point the leavening will be so thorough that there will be no truth and that is what is predicted for mankind in the gospel age. See Rom 11 and 1 & 2 Tim.

I included myself in the comment about the admonishion from 2 Co 13 and I have not made my argument about the covenants, the subject of this thread, from a dispensational but from a literalist view. I have told MurrayA, and anyone could have read it, that I am a dispensationlist because of the unconditional covenants of God and I do not believe the covenants because I am a dispensationlist.

If either of you would accept the covenants of God in the manner in which they were given, true and faithful and literal, then you would likewise be a dispensationalist like me.

You do not believe these words and you cannot blame me for it just because I expose it for everyone to see.

3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

I am a dispensationlist because I am a literalist. My point is that I have been pumping the literalist position and asking you to believe the words in the Scriptures which you do not. This is where we differ. You do not think that the word "everlasting" means without time constraints as it relates to God's covenants with Israel. Some one of your persuasion even guffawed at the idea that God could keep his covenant for a thousand generations in Psa 105 and you remember what you have said about Zech 14 and Rev 20 as examples of your hermeneutic.

So, my conclusion is that you are a teacher of religion. You have had a lifetime to evaluate the words of the Scriptures to determine if you will believe them. Your comments indicate what your decision has been and so we reach different conclusions on every topic we discuss.

Here is a statement from on high about the importance of words.

Keeping in mind that the kingdom of heaven is a definite time period, the gospel age, which we are living in right now while the King is away and the earth is turned over to stewards in his absence.

Mt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

The leaven is described as false doctrine and corrupt religion. The meal is the peoples of the earth and the 3 measures are the 3 familes they are divided into. The woman is the same woman as is in Re 17 and this is the 4th parable in Matt 13 and the 4th church that is dealt with, Thyatira, was scolded for allowing a wicked woman to teach.
Re 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

These are all the same woman and she represents this same false religious system that is catholic or universal.

Get out of false religion if you are in it. This woman has harlot daughters!
Do not be deceived!

I have been discussing with your people for many years and all of them have told me that God has elected a few of you before the foundation of the world and he saves you at his own discretion and in his own time without any faith on your part at all, He hates the rest of mankind and has created them for the day of destruction and there is no hope that even one can be rescued from a certain hell.

...and you have the nerve to accuse me of the above.

In my own defense (because no one else will defend me), I have always said that dispensationalism is not a means to be saved. But I have not been talking about dispensationalism, I have merely been accused of it. However, whether you believe the words of the Scripture is an indicator of salvation and you men have admitted you do not believe them and I agree that you don't.

What does this statement mean to you gents?

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] IN TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That AT THAT TIME (In time past) ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now

Hmmnnn! It seems like God is keeping his promise of the blessing through the seed part of the Abrahamic covenant now!

But did he choose gentiles and when and how did he choose gentiles? See 2 Th 2:13,14.

Lets see now. They were without God in time past but now "go into the world and preach the gospel that Christ died for your sins and whosoever believeth in him shall be saved". No! No! It is not whosover is saved shall believe in him, like a certain group of bible changers have told us!

So then the believers are the elect of God.

Ro 4:24 But for us also, to whom it (righteousness) shall be imputed, IF we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

The nations that sprang from the three sons of Noah, Shem, The eastern nations, Ham, the African nations, and Japheth, the gentiles, the western nations (Largely speaking), and who disobeyed God in the Noahic covenant to scatter throughout the earth and replenish it wound up under a single despot, Nimrod, a grandson of Ham, and learned a world and Godless religion at Babel and then took that religion with them when God scattered them in his judgment of the languages. We are burdened with that religion on every continent and among the 3 families of the earth to this day. God then called Abraham and raised up a nation from him by which he could make himself known to the world and keep the truth from being corrupted by separating this nation with his Mosaic law. Eventually, he would bless all these families of the earth through the promised seed of the woman who would be a descendant of Abraham.

You see, all of God's prophetic progarm is accomplished through these people. The church itself, a gentile church, is real because of the rejection of the Jew of the righteousness of faith in Christ.

Listen to this!

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

And this!

Ro 15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise (The Holy Spirit = Salvation) in Christ by the gospel:

DJC49 wrote:
As per your:
[1] An amillennialist is one who BELIEVES that the "Millennium" is identical with the Church Age. It began at Pentecost and continues on until He consumates ALL things at His one (and only) 2nd Coming. It happens to have been the predominant eschatological perspective of the Church until bozos Darby & Scofield came along.

Oh me, I can not get over it. Somebody help me. This is the year 2008. How many years in a millenia? How many years since Pentecost?

Hint! Subtract about 30 years from 2008. How many 1000 years since Pentecost?

I know, I know, millinium does not mean 1000!

Man, do you know how foolish you are making yourself look? At some point my pity gear is going to kick in. Please, I said please, I can't take much more!

If someone comes on here and tells me they don't believe the words of the bible and they consistently do it on every topic, I am just going to believe them and I will refuse to be intimidated when they ask me to consider that they are Christian believers with just a little different take than me and that I am too harsh when I doubt the sincerity of their confession.

It was not me who admonished us all thusly:

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

"the faith" includes believing the words of God without changing them. If you change them, it means you do not believe them.

The whole upshot of your post shows only how you have equated your Dispy system with the Word of God, and incapable of thinking outside your box.
_

I have not pumped the dispy system at all. I have pumped the integrity of the word of God and encouraged readers to believe it in every one of my comments. You, on the other hand have done just the opposite.

You have no confidence in the eternal and unconditional covenant promises God has made tp Abraham and his offspring and you dismiss them out of hand. You no doubt treat the Davidic covenant the same way but you will not even comment on it. Your denial of these promises hinders you from following the historical record of the giving the spiritual promises of the new covenant to the gentiles by grace, who had no direct promises of salvation, except through this nation. There seems to be no historical context whatsoever to your scheme and no prophetic value to great prophetic books like Isaiah past AD 70, and words and their meaning seems to mean nothing to you unless and until you assign new meanings to them that advances your perverted doctrines.