John uk I liked the article by A.W. Pink. I really agree with it and about the need to really emphiaize to someone when witnessing to someone how we look through the eyes of a Holy righteous God and how desperetly we need his mercy. Honesty John, for when I first came to Christ to be saved I don't think it really dawned on me, but in time in fellowship with The Lord he started to really open me up and show me just how sinful of a man I really was and made appreciate more what Christ has done for me. Some people are different. Some realize right off of the bat and some are like me and realize in due time how we looked before we accepted Christ.
And do you imagine that the Gospel is magnified or God glorified by going to worldlings and telling them that they â€śmay be saved at this moment by simply accepting Christ as their personal Saviorâ€ť while they are wedded to their idols and their hearts are still in love with sin? If I do so, I tell them a lie, pervert the Gospel, insult Christ, and turn the grace of God into lasciviousness.
John this is I meant by in my comment,that just asking somebody "do you belive in Jesus" and they say yes doesn't mean they have been born again. A lot of people believe in Jeus, but not the Christ Jesus. Big difference.
And to add to this from an easy-believers stand point. I'm not implicating going up to somebody and asking them "do you beleive in Jesus"? And they answer yes. Well then your saved. That's not it. As far as I'm concerned Muslims beleive in Jesus but they'll just say he was a great prophet and teacher, but they don't believe he's the Christ, that's the difference. And a lot of people like to use the verse against easy-believism about devils believe and tremble. Well, of course they believe. They've been in the presence of The Lord. And of course they tremble, there fate is sealed and they know there final destiny. I'd tremble too.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that we outta be saved and live out our lives as babes in Christ. I strongly encourage believers to seek discipleship and live devoted lives to Christ. But will every believer seek that level? No. Will it determine there eternal salvation? No. Should we look down at those who don't ? No. Are they a false christian if they don't. No. There's no such thing as a false christian to be honest with you. Your either a Christian or your not. You've either put your full trust and faith in the finished work of Christ or you haven't.
Yes lurker, I was speaking of both salvation and then saintification. My point being is that some would say because someone who is a (easy believer) is not a real christian because he's still committing sin everyday or that he isn't showing any physical changes in there life that they must not really be saved. I agree with with you that saintification is a life long process not an over night process. And forgive me but I've heard from some who claim to be lordship Salvationist leave the impression that a true believe has to show evidence that they are saved by obeitiance to Christ, and if they don't they were never really saved In the first place. If that's so, that's where I've got a problem with this teaching. That's the Holy Spirits department like I said to bring us under conviction and if need be to chastise. But if I'm taught "if you really love god you'll change all your ways", and it's not of the Holy Spirit working through me, then that's of my own actions, and that would be works of my own. Then I would feel like I had to do this plus faith in order to really be saved and that's not true salvation.
Lurker, thank you for comment. Lurker, Jesus made it clear that ye must be born again. Which is to believe of Christ. That's the first and most important step. Afterwards we have received to holy spirit that dwells within us,any changes and corrections needed in our lives is done by the Holy Spirit through convictions and so forth. When you say(outworking of faith) I'd like you to clarify so there's in misunderstanding. Thanks
Sorry Gs. Forgive me if I made it seem like a person doesn't need to realize that he is a sinner. Of course a person needs to know why he or she needs to be saved and what to be saved from. But to use the term repent of all yours sins or such leaves the impression they need to work at something before they can get saved.
Us. Like I said I'm not a lordshipsalvationist so let me see if I can find the best way to describe it. It's almost like instead of it being about what God did for us, it "lordshipsalvationist" seems more like what we can do for God. Yes Us. When I was use the Old Testament I did say he "turned or changed his mind about his anger.
Gs. Brother. If you ever in your life took Jesus for his word, when he said in John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. You are saved. If not then that makes Christ a liar, but we both know Christ did not and cannot lie. He didn't say whoever obeith me shall have everlasting life,he said whosoever "believeth" on me. 2 corithians 11:3 but I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
It's very simple brother and sisters. In order to be saved biblically we simply believe. John 6:47 John 3:16 Romans 10:9&10 acts 16:31 etc. please don't expect me to put type them all. The key word in the verses of salvation is "believe" not "do". For eternal life.
If you listened to Billy Graham's hope for America at the end that's how he presented the gospel. And then resisted John 3:16 from the niv. Heresy! If he had given the plan of salvation biblically and from the kjv. which is by believing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Put your faith and trust in his "finished" work and nothing else, that would have been right. The fact that if we add even a single drop of anything else to the gospel, we have perverted and adulterated it. That would be the work of satan. The gospel is very simple 1 corithians 15 1Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to youâ€”unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also,
No where should we imply the word repent when we have an opportunity to tell someone how to be saved. Especially if were gonna use it meaning to turn from all of your sins and clean your life up before you get saved. That'll make em not wanna get saved. Then dare say if you haven't surrenderd your life to Christ then you must not have really got saved. Nonsense! That's for those who are mature in there faith and make that step to walk after discipleship, not a new born again believer.
Us I'm not say that the biblical way the word repent is used is work. I'm simply saying that the way it's used today in the lordship salvation crowd uses it. I'm not a lordship Salvationist but from my understanding these preachers and teachers of this like to throw it around with plan of salvation. That's where I have a problem with it. Only one time is it written that I have found the word repent was used in a passage of salvation. Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. No where in the verse should the word repent of your sins being applied. It was simply applying to turn and believe the gospel. Today the people will try to say the word repent means to turn from sin or change the way you live. It's nonsense. In the Old Testament God it illustrated god repenting more times than anyone, stating he was turning or changed his mind about his anger and such. He wasn't turning from his sin because god can't sin. So we rule that option out.
Unless one is misunderstanding you, Ken, you believe that faith comes from the individual who exercising it by trusting Christ for salvation. According to the previously referenced verse, that would be a work of righteousness that THEY have done, which would make it a works salvation.
U.S. I have no idea where you come to say that a person having faith is work. That makes no sense you don't have to work towards anything to have faith. You simply do or you don't. To believe,trust,or have faith in anything takes absolutely no work to do.
Gs. Maybe this will help you understand why it hard to understand where your coming from and help shed some light to others who misunderstand by listening to those who teach lordship salvation.The Greek word for â€śrepentâ€ť here is METANOEO, which means, â€śto change one's mind.â€ť This is irrefutable evidence against the heresy of Lordship Salvation, which perverts the meaning of â€śrepentanceâ€ť to mean forsaking one's sins.
Self-righteousness! Adding even the slightest work of self-righteousness to the gospel corrupts it into a false way, a false plan, and a road to damnation. Oh, that Lordship Salvationists would allow the Holy Spirit to do His work of changing the hearts of men; instead of perverting the gospel in a foolish attempt to force men to cease from sinning to be saved. Leave the gospel alone, don't mess with it! Eternal life is a free gift, paid for by Jesus' precious literal blood (1st Peter 1:18-19; Hebrews 9:12,22-24). Salvation is received, not achieved.
Gs Texas comment: Lordship salvation involves turning from your sins(repentance) huh? That's not what repentance is. He we go again. Friend turning from your sins takes "work". We are not to mix any works into the finish work of Christ. That's what a lot of "Lordship salvation" followers fail to understand. Just get rid of this turn from your sins as regard to repentance, peoe keep using it wrongly.