Neil when did I say that I feel as though it's a most that the church should feed the starving families? I'm not trying to state my comment from a biblical stand point, it's common sense. Either waste millions and millions or just spend what we need and do something descent with the rest of the money.
I agree Neil, but that's not the point about wether or not it's the churches responsibility or not. The point is a church wasting million and millions of dollars on a building and we have families nearby starving and without shelter. Something's wrong with that picture.
I'm sorry brothers and sisters but I've gotta say it! Why? Why? Why in the world are these churches spending millions and millions of dollars on a building for fellow believers can gather for worship!? Why can't we just spend what we need to accommodate for space required? Were spending millions upon millions are there are families struggling to keep a roof over there heads and feed there children, if there not already sleeping in tents. But I mean really!? An Olympic pool,a spa, a gym? There's nothing wrong with having a nice building to have worship, but this is rediculous!
I hope I never left the impression that I don't think "repentance" is not needed. Yes it is biblical and it is needed before and after conversion. It's just the way it is being used by some today, especially when presenting the gospel is being misused. That's all
Sorry Us. Thanks for the response.yes about the comment. I was merely speaking about certain evangalist who speak messages like such and that I find that to be a very arrogant message to those who are lost. Now this whole point of view all comes from watching certain evangalist who preach "repent of all your sins" message along with the gospel. And they clearly state that's what they mean when they say that, to quit sinning. As of matter of fact not long ago I watched repeated videos from Ray Comfort speaking that very message to lost sinners. That's where I'm coming from and simply trying to state that's not right.
No Gs. I never took it as thats what you were stating. I'm just speaking in general. I'm mostly asking if that's what the L.S. belief or aditude was towards certain belivers was, and if so that's how I felt about the matter. Like I said I don't claim to be a L.S.im just saying that was my impression. Gs. To be honest with you, I agree with you that yes there should be a change in someone after being saved wether great or small changes. But to look at someone and make the assumption that if they're a real christian they'll never fall out of the race.(fellowship). I try to be down to earth about the matter because I've been their. Honestly, I've strived so hard to seek God and go all out for him that I've ended up burning myself out. Then I'm asking God for strength to get back up and press forth. I'm saying, that just because a believer isn't fully in the faith or maybe there struggling, to classify them as not a real christian, would be wrong. Like I said earlier, your either a christian or your not. You either believe or you don't. You've either put all your trust in Christ or you haven't.
John uk I liked the article by A.W. Pink. I really agree with it and about the need to really emphiaize to someone when witnessing to someone how we look through the eyes of a Holy righteous God and how desperetly we need his mercy. Honesty John, for when I first came to Christ to be saved I don't think it really dawned on me, but in time in fellowship with The Lord he started to really open me up and show me just how sinful of a man I really was and made appreciate more what Christ has done for me. Some people are different. Some realize right off of the bat and some are like me and realize in due time how we looked before we accepted Christ.
And do you imagine that the Gospel is magnified or God glorified by going to worldlings and telling them that they â€śmay be saved at this moment by simply accepting Christ as their personal Saviorâ€ť while they are wedded to their idols and their hearts are still in love with sin? If I do so, I tell them a lie, pervert the Gospel, insult Christ, and turn the grace of God into lasciviousness.
John this is I meant by in my comment,that just asking somebody "do you belive in Jesus" and they say yes doesn't mean they have been born again. A lot of people believe in Jeus, but not the Christ Jesus. Big difference.
And to add to this from an easy-believers stand point. I'm not implicating going up to somebody and asking them "do you beleive in Jesus"? And they answer yes. Well then your saved. That's not it. As far as I'm concerned Muslims beleive in Jesus but they'll just say he was a great prophet and teacher, but they don't believe he's the Christ, that's the difference. And a lot of people like to use the verse against easy-believism about devils believe and tremble. Well, of course they believe. They've been in the presence of The Lord. And of course they tremble, there fate is sealed and they know there final destiny. I'd tremble too.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that we outta be saved and live out our lives as babes in Christ. I strongly encourage believers to seek discipleship and live devoted lives to Christ. But will every believer seek that level? No. Will it determine there eternal salvation? No. Should we look down at those who don't ? No. Are they a false christian if they don't. No. There's no such thing as a false christian to be honest with you. Your either a Christian or your not. You've either put your full trust and faith in the finished work of Christ or you haven't.
Yes lurker, I was speaking of both salvation and then saintification. My point being is that some would say because someone who is a (easy believer) is not a real christian because he's still committing sin everyday or that he isn't showing any physical changes in there life that they must not really be saved. I agree with with you that saintification is a life long process not an over night process. And forgive me but I've heard from some who claim to be lordship Salvationist leave the impression that a true believe has to show evidence that they are saved by obeitiance to Christ, and if they don't they were never really saved In the first place. If that's so, that's where I've got a problem with this teaching. That's the Holy Spirits department like I said to bring us under conviction and if need be to chastise. But if I'm taught "if you really love god you'll change all your ways", and it's not of the Holy Spirit working through me, then that's of my own actions, and that would be works of my own. Then I would feel like I had to do this plus faith in order to really be saved and that's not true salvation.
Lurker, thank you for comment. Lurker, Jesus made it clear that ye must be born again. Which is to believe of Christ. That's the first and most important step. Afterwards we have received to holy spirit that dwells within us,any changes and corrections needed in our lives is done by the Holy Spirit through convictions and so forth. When you say(outworking of faith) I'd like you to clarify so there's in misunderstanding. Thanks
Sorry Gs. Forgive me if I made it seem like a person doesn't need to realize that he is a sinner. Of course a person needs to know why he or she needs to be saved and what to be saved from. But to use the term repent of all yours sins or such leaves the impression they need to work at something before they can get saved.
Us. Like I said I'm not a lordshipsalvationist so let me see if I can find the best way to describe it. It's almost like instead of it being about what God did for us, it "lordshipsalvationist" seems more like what we can do for God. Yes Us. When I was use the Old Testament I did say he "turned or changed his mind about his anger.
Gs. Brother. If you ever in your life took Jesus for his word, when he said in John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. You are saved. If not then that makes Christ a liar, but we both know Christ did not and cannot lie. He didn't say whoever obeith me shall have everlasting life,he said whosoever "believeth" on me. 2 corithians 11:3 but I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
It's very simple brother and sisters. In order to be saved biblically we simply believe. John 6:47 John 3:16 Romans 10:9&10 acts 16:31 etc. please don't expect me to put type them all. The key word in the verses of salvation is "believe" not "do". For eternal life.