How long will the fable of Romans 13 be perpetuated?

Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: (Acts 15:14-16)

All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us. *In that day* will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old (Amos 9:10-11)

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18)

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. (Romans 13:4)

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (Romans 7:9)

James Thomas wrote:
Hey Mike,
I appreciate the open discussion and understand its probably arrived to the usual conclusion, but if I may add one point to consider. Jesus gave the reason why they (same group in John 3) didn't believe here.
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Mike wrote:
Lurker, without getting into this deeply, I would just again say that these goats are guilty of goatness because that's what they want. "because he hath not believed" Jn 3:18

The corollary is vs 21- which I don't see saying he cometh to the light that he might doeth truth, but that he that doeth truth cometh to the light... Of course this follows the work of the Holy Spirit making manifest the desire.

Ultimately it goes back to beginnings. I do not hold that God makes men in his image for no purpose other than a pitifully short physical existence followed by an eternity of darkness. God does not create them to sin. Therefore...

Based on your foundational belief of God's nature regarding His creation, you have no choice but to make mankind responsible for their eternal fate by affirming free will. I don't agree but I get it.

Mike wrote:
John 3:19
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

"Rather than" has intrinsic meaning, which we need not go into. The why is given in the fact that they loved darkness. And why did they love darkness? Because their deeds were evil. How did they know their deeds were evil? That they knew is understood from their need to hide them in darkness. They hate the light because it exposes their deeds, which are evil, which they know are evil, which they could not know if have no sense at all. They don't respond because they truly love evil.

Your reply answers why the gospel was not effective for the one but it doesn't answer why the other repented and became a faithful Christian.

Would you agree that the men Jesus spoke of in John 3:18-20 were goats? And those of John 3:21 were lost sheep?

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? (Jer 13:23) Can vessels of wrath become vessels of mercy (Rom 9:22-23)? Can a goat become a sheep?

Dr. Tim wrote:
I am a bit confused about something. It is my understanding that the soul is the seat of the intellect, the emotions and the will. Why do so many say that since the fall of Adam, man no longer has free will, but no one that I know of claims that he has no similar extinction of the ability to think and feel? Seems fishy to me. And please, don’t quote Reverend Rightguard and Doctor Doohickey. Where does the BIBLE declare that man is unable to choose for or against Jesus Christ?

Two heathens hear the same gospel message at the same time from the same person; one repents and becomes a faithful Christian and the other does not. Why was the gospel effective for one and not the other?

Once you accept the truth that lost sheep will always become found sheep and goats will always remain goats, then you'll find all the biblical proofs you want to answer your question. But if you reject this simple truth then you'll always be challenging God's purpose of election.

B. McCausland wrote:
Is a 'mandate' a law, a recommendation, an instruction, tyranny, or a suggestion?

Jim Lincoln wrote:
https://tinyurl.com/yyfn4zxj (Joe Biden has missed two deadlines to name a running mate to take on Donald Trump. Why is he taking so long?)
Hey, we don't know who Biden will pick yet

Frank wrote:
I took 50 MG for quite a while and it never worked. They have just increased me to 100 MG a couple of days ago and that also has not worked yet. I will try taking an extra 100 if I can’t sleep and will see what happens. I don’t like narcotics and this is not a narcotic.
THANK YOU BROTHER.

Because my life's career has been physical work, I've been a regular chiropractic patient most of my adult life. Don't know if you have ever but you may want to spend some time searching the net for info on chiropractic care and sleep issues.

Frank wrote:
Nice hearing from you old friend. I am assuming you are still an ember. Anyway, I also have had sleeping problems all my life. I currently am taking something called Trazadone and it isn’t working either. I still fall asleep late, but when I do fall asleep I am really out of it. I have tried over the counter drugs and they have never worked either. It is strange how God leaves some of these things with us and delivers us from others.
I have also tried binging right before bed and usually that doesn’t work either.
Take care and I’m glad to see you are okay and posting.

I take Trazadone too. Never tried anything else. My doc prescribed it about five years ago. It's not supposed to be habit forming. I recall the first time I took it I slept for a solid 14 hours. He said I could take up to 300 mg but trial and error to see what works. I started out at 50 mg and it worked for a while then not so much. So I bumped up to 100mg and has been working since. On rare occasions it doesn't, usually when there was too much stress during the day, so I get up and take another 100 mg and that usually does the job.

I don't like any drugs but not being able to sleep isn't healthy either.

Frank wrote:
The below is not for you.
Fellow Ember, what are you doing up?

The Quiet Christian wrote:
Speaking of wives, Brother Frank, we received excellent news regarding my wife today. They caught the cancer early and she does not require any further treatment. Grateful for the Lord's lovingkindness.

John UK wrote:
Thanks for that, Lurker.
Can I ask you if your discovery has produced a practical benefit to you? This is really all I am interested in. I never do anything these days for curiosities sake, I desire to be more fruitful, more holy, more happy, more pleasing to the Lord, more submitted to him, more sacrificial, more blessed, more used of him, better in character, more powerful in service, a better example, a good mentor, more prosperous, and so on.

But, as I'm sure you'll agree, God doesn't use a cookie cutter to stamp out identical replicas of His servants. Some of us are toenails while others are ears and knee caps and so on. But we all fit together in one body to serve His calling and purpose and all the more so during these troubling and dark days many of us believe are very near the end of days.

John UK wrote:
Lurker, I shall be more than pleased to hear what you have to say about the significance of the elements of the Lord's Table. This is the very thing I shall be turning to next, as I mentioned earlier, why have two elements if they both refer to the same thing? I shall be separating the bread from the wine, as I believe it has a different significance from the wine.

My point was wine isn't the only figure of the blood of Christ. Same for bread. There are many more; clean water being an obvious one as both cleanse sin. (What else cleanses sin that Paul spoke of?) And clean water leads to the next question... which water? And so on until the trail of bread crumbs lead to a conclusion. It's a study you have to do for yourself if you are inclined.

Wine was given as a figure of Christ's blood. We know the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. But what if something else cleanses from sin as well?

Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Can't be a contradiction so the only possibility remaining is wine and clean water are both figures for the blood of Christ. But there are two types of wine mentioned in scripture; wine that makes the heart merry and wine that makes drunken and impairs spiritual vision. So too, there are two types of water; upper and lower. JB baptized in lower water which was the same as OT circumcision of the flesh. So it follows, then, that upper water baptism is the same as OT circumcision of the heart.

Deut 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass

On judgment day the goats will be separated from the sheep. The goats will be placed to the left of the throne and the sheep to the right.

So here is the question. Were all the sheep goats before they were converted? Or were they lost sheep?

We know Jesus came to seek the lost sheep so the answer is obvious. Goats are not transformed into sheep.

This is election. There is a people foreknown and foreloved of God. They were His from before time and He gave them to His son to redeem in time and charged His Son to lose nothing.

When called in time by the gospel, does the lost sheep repent and believe the gospel? Of course. By means of their own horsepower? No. And here's the proof:

Ezek 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

ladybug wrote:
1) "Does God save sinners based on catastrophes" my original point was circumstances don't save, the Gospel saves.

2) To include circumstances leads to a synergistic gospel, i.e., something terrible happened and caused me to believe-cause and affect mentality. Anyway, that's enough on that.

1) Agree.

2) Circumstances don't save so can't be included in salvation. However, the gospel doesn't save everyone who hears it so there must be another work of God preceding the gospel which makes it effectual to God's called in time. Repentance? And if God uses circumstances to bring about repentance, it can't be considered synergistic.

For me it was a financial disaster which set me up for suicidal depression which brought me to a hare's breath from taking my own life. That disaster didn't save me but it did bring me to my knees before God begging Him to save me or I die.

I believe what you are speaking of may be on the order of a tear jerking sermon followed by an altar call and a coerced profession of faith. But was it God's work tugging on their heart strings to repentance or emotion?

Exek 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

All have a hardened (stony) heart before the Father draws His own to the Son. Dealing with a hardened heart is the first order of business in God's plan of redemption and is often brought about by difficult circumstances that bring each person to their knees in submission to God's will. These circumstances can be as varied as the people who are afflicted thereby but the purpose is singular; to turn a heart from rebellion against God to submission to His will. Paul's stony heart was pulverized on Damascus Road when Jesus showed him he was guilty of the very Mosaic laws he thought he was faithfully enforcing. This is biblical repentance and, contrary to the belief of many, it comes before being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The HS is holy and cannot make a habitation in a hardened, filthy heart to facilitate repentance. The Light doesn't dwell in darkness.

Watchmanrem wrote:
Again i said ...that he said, trump said, I am the the chosen one.. notice the question mark. Is he? Question! Rev...?? Dont you get it. Its a question. As for consideration.
For your interest his parent have a middle name. Who whould have a middle name as "christ"

Trump's grandmother's maiden name was Elisabeth Christ. Trump's father, Fred, was given his mother's maiden name as his middle name. What of it?