Talk about grasping at straws to try and prove a point that's nothing but opinion, at best.
We have a clear and present danger over here in the US, and banning firearms at this point, isn't an option. I would never sit here and pontificate what anyone else abroad should or shouldn't do, with a shaking of the head, and a waving of the finger, while going, "tsk, tsk, tsk, listen to me, you poor fools", when I don't even live there, and have no clue what's really up, save for the random newsbytes I hear on the nightly world news".
Preservation of human life, is tantamount to being faithless, and trying to thwart God's will? I've never heard such utter nonsense. A madman revs his car up, the tires smoke, and he's making a bee-line to murder himself a Christian. The Christian steps out of the way to save his life, instead of dropping to his knees in prayer, and the Christian is in sin for being faithless?
A Christian is street preaching when a madman says, "I'm gonna kill me a Christian", and begins stabbing the preacher. The preacher trys to run, but the madman is much faster. The preacher strikes the madman with a pipe he sees laying nearby to stop from being murdered. The preacher was a faithless chump who sinned by defending himself? Hmmm.
Ok John, I'll think on it for a few. I didn't include any scriptures, for the sole reason that I feel they've all been exhausted, from both sides, and there was nothing new that I could think of to add to all that have already been posted up. My approach was to keep them all in mind, and give my take on things from a common sense, biblical perspective, as I see things, anyway, keeping the whole of scripture in mind.
Scripture doesn't necessarily condone or forbid in a way where we can post up a clear, all-encompassing verse or passage, that lays out the answer clearly enough to put the topic to bed, so I went at it from a different angle.
I didn't forget about you yesterday, and poked away at my answer throughout the day. Well, I think most here already know I have some issues, and the response ended up being 5-pages long. I hadn't planned on that, but I really can't shorten it, either, and still have it all make sense.
So, the question is, do I post it anyway? I don't want to upset anyone, because I know my long rants can get tiring and old.
Dr Tim Wrote: "Christopher, you stay up in Roadkill Island, or whatever that place is called. Donâ€™t want no sourpuss Yanks down here spoilinâ€™ all the fun."
There was a cable TV series a while back called, My Crazy Obsession, or something like that. I had to stop watching it pretty quick, because there are some real disturbing people out there. I thought it would be on the lighter, more humorous side.
There was a guy in his 30's, or so, who spent all of his free-time, scraping up roadkill. He would put them in the bed of his pickup, drive to his little roadkill cemetary out in a field, give them all a little funeral, and bury them. When he wasn't at his day job, this was all he did, driving around searching for roadkill.
The liberals have caused such hatred, division, bleakness, and confusion, from the public school systems, right on up to Washington, that I think it's just been too much for some of the already mentally unhealthy to handle. Their brains become overloaded and overwhelmed, and since they've been taught that there's no God, they choose murder to relieve the pressure.
Bottomline though is that without firearms, there would be far fewer deaths. The conundrum though, is this: America is inundated with firearms at this point. Take them away from every citizen who is properly licensed, and every thug is left fully armed, and emboldened. Take every gun away, and I see the current violent crime rates, skyrocketing. So, what to do?
So, why are mass-shootings, by definition, so concentrated in the US? I was looking at the mass-murders stats on Mother Jones, and National Affairs, to try and see if my take would jive, and it seems to. We've always had pockets of mass-shootings, but they skyrocketed during OBamas reign, which is when this counry began to implode, on the morality and hate scale. Then, Trump takes over, and it's been a country divided, as what OBama started, goes into overdrive with the liberals, relentlessly, splitting this country wide open, and fueling the hatred, division, and bigotry, in order to take down a duly elected President, by any means necessary, and no matter the collateral damage. They have whipped this country into a frenzy; sending some of the mentally unstable, over the edge, and driven to murder.
Couple all of that with erasing God from the minds of the next generation, teaching evolution as scientific fact, which breeds hopelessness, and a lack of purpose, not allowing kids to be kids, but rather, throwing them into the middle of adult affairs, causing them undue stress for their futures, shoving behavorial drug cocktails down their throats, and also, confusing them to the point where they have no idea if they're a male, a female, or neither,
B McCausland Wrote: ".. But what do you think about the random shuttings that stir the American masses whipping up 'the right to bear arms' sentiment so heavenly in the population?"
Thanks for asking, and for looking to have a conversation, because situations aren't always as black and white as the media hypnotizes the general public, and the world at large, into believing.
For starters, I don't really go the conspiracy route, where certain people are being used as pawns (the shooters) by shadowy figures in these shootings in order to push firearm agendas, both for, and against gun control. The main reason I don't go that way is because, once caught, people just love to talk, or they simply succumb to experienced interrogators. Dead men can't speak, but those taken alive, never claim they were some pawn used to mass-murder for their country to further an agenda for or against gun control. They are always either angry about something, or just plain bigots who hate. Their crimes are simply convenient, and used to argue both for and against firearms, after the fact, but I don't believe they are pre-planned conspiracies by powerful people or organizations. They're just crimes of convenience, used to argue agendas, after the carnage.
I'll try and get back to you later or in the morning.
Two words for now though: Situational wisdom, and BM, I don't have the answers, but I'll give my take on the overall scene that we have going on over here; the cause and effect, as I see it, with the mass shootings, etc.
...For the record, I don't own any guns, and I don't plan on ever buying one. Here's our current problem: America is inundated with firearms, yes, but take them away from the citizens who went through the proper channels to license themselves, and what gets accomplished? Every single street thug, criminal, gang-banger, and otherwise, lawless, is left fully armed, and not only armed, but emboldened to do as they will, with a new confidence in their penchant for crime, and the taking of human life. States that have license to carry laws have lower crime statistics, while all others that outlaw the right to carry, have disproportionately higher rates of crime and death. The statistics aren't even close.
Some seem to think America is like the wild, wild West. To these, I'd say, balance your news sources, or come on over for a visit to digest what's real, and what's been painted by mainstream media sources who have agendas.
Rhode Islanders got the privilege of red light cams, just last year. I'm all for safety, but they're a glitchy nuisance as well. We have a fairly well known court TV show up here, called, Caught in Providence, with Judge Caprio. The show is basically just live cameras in traffic court each day, watching as people plead their cases. Well, last year, when the red light cams went to work, his court was inundated, as in, bursting at the seams for weeks. The city finally lowered the ridiculous fines, and raised the speed buffers.
I kept getting nailed by two cameras around the city, no matter how careful I thought I was driving. For three tickets, I got seven court date summons in the mail, and all on the same day, to appear on all different dates, so they're a mess all-around. Fortunately, my wife knows the court administrator, who took care of all of them for me, so I didn't have to pay or appear, because the glitchyfiasco was going to end up with me having my license suspended.
Safety is fine, but they cause a lot of their own problems.
...No mentally healthy person would remain standing up straight, amidst some madman spraying bullets, and no mentally healthy person would just stand there, smiling, as some thug swung a pipe at their head, over and over, while saying, "Should my skull cave in, it was God's will.
Self defense comes in many forms, which includes ducking, and taking cover. Self-protection is tantamount to a lack of faith, and denying God's sovereignty? Give me a break.
...The argument seems to boil down to this: God is sovereign in all things. Yes, yes, and yes, but it's the foolish man or woman who bypasses our God-given common sense, saying, "Hey, whatever happens was God's will". Hmmm...really? Go and park your body in the middle of a busy highway. When you get flattened out by a semi, will your Christian brothers and sisters say, "God's will was done", or, "What was that foolish person thinking?"
Depending on the potential for threat, is being prepared to take on the devils schemes really a lack of faith? Unprophetable Servant said, earlier on, that God is a God of means, and He provides the means for our survival, something to that effect.
Anyone who claims they wouldn't take cover, duck, or step out of the way in an attempt to spare their own life, or push someone to try and spare anothers life, is either lying, or deceiving themselves. How, exactly, is trying to preserve life in this manner, different than any other? The arguments are nonsense, because nobody would just stand there, allowing themself to be killed, and that's the entire point. Nobody would refrain from trying to preserve a life, because God gave us that common sense.
Bottomline is that there is no all-encompassing topic that covers self defense in the scriptures, but there's nothing in the scriptures that forbids it either, and if anything, there are many examples of self defense that are nowhere condemned.
I think each situation calls for situational wisdom, and biblical common sense. Also, since personal self defense is nowhere condemned or forbidden, but instead, example after example is given, it seems to me that one would have to work real hard to prove it unbiblical, or label preservation of life as being a lack of faith.
The thing is that opining from afar, while living in relative safety and comfort, it's always so easy to say, I'd do this, I wouldn't do that, or, I'd handle a situation in this or that way, when the truth is that not one person has any clue how they'd feel or how they'd react when meeting extreme danger, face to face. We all do it...we "know' what we'd do. Nope.
Anyone who takes cover to avoid a bullet, ducks when some thug swings a steel pipe at their head, or moves out of the way to avoid being hit by a speeding car, is guilty of defending themselves, and trying to preserve life, so the argument is nonsense.
God blessed most with common sense, and that calls for the protecting of life.
I look at all of this very seriously, and weigh everything out as honestly as I can, always putting God first, to try and get to the bottom of things, the best I can, anyway. When something isn't crystal clear, to me anyway, I have to use biblical common sense, to try and come to any conclusion.
I understand the influence of tradition, but I've always been able to catch myself, and seperate from it, mentally, in order to look at something clearly, and I never have any problem staying separated from it if scripture takes me in a different direction.
I also understand your point about God's sovereignty, and I'm assuming that you're viewing any action on our parts to change an outcome, as a lack of faith(?) For example, this discussion, and attempting to save ones life, or the life of another.
As of right now, for me, it has nothing to do with any lack of faith, but rather, God given common sense. I've posed this example before, but say someone breaks their leg. Instead of doing nothing but praying for it to reset and heal itself, they seek out medical attention to have it reset, and immobilized in a cast so it can heal. The person used their God-given common sense instead of prayer. How would being pro-active to spare a life be any different?
I'll let you all carry on. I hope everyone has a safe, happy, and fruit-filled day.
I was just thinking how neat it is that I can type out words on a screen, that anyone can read and understand, and just the mere fact that I(we) know which ones to type, and how to organize them, on the fly, in order to communicate, is kind of amazing.
I'm probably sounding like a borderline lunatic right now ðŸ˜Š Ok, over and out...
Actually, I'll just say one thing about Mark 8:35: I'd like to see it get discussed, and expounded upon, because there's a whole lot of context that gets packed into that one sentence, and it's not a stand-alone verse that I feel can be used to refute common sense, self-protection.
Do I think a church body should be taking up weapons training, and arming themselves in order to defend against a madman, potentially strolling through its door? Hmmm...I've never given it any thought, so I'll be following the conversation. I guess the big question is gonna be: Does arming itself express a lack of faith in God to protect, or is arming itself (onesself) an expression of God-given common sense for self-preservation against the enemy?