[URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=82905161940]]]Unconditional Election[/URL]

[URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=226081322278]]]Unconditional Election is Truth[/URL]

The problem is not in providing the proof texts, No the problem is whether you can receive the Truth from them. Don't forget the heretic (Arminian/synergist/free willer/antinomian/socinian/Yamilist etc) - Cannot perceive the Truth from Scripture.

UNConditional Election iaw...

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Valiantfortruth wrote:
This is the problem Calvin never figured out. How can a lost sinner get saved?

Jo 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes I do know it says

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

But remember the GIFT of Faith does come from GOD! The object of Faith is Christ.

Casob wrote:
I doubt that anyone will give a sensible answer to my question concerning the preaching of the good news, glad tidings, to every creature and it is a dangerous question on this forum.

John 16:13 Howbeit when HE, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE will GUIDE YOU into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

Now do you see that the Holy Sprit prevents us from joining your DIY salvation club. Sorry.

So don't forget you have been warned in the Word of God, for example

It appears that those who live without the truth will concoct fables and Satan and the carnal flesh will help them into this hell bound state.

2Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

KK wrote:
John 10:27 My sheep HEAR my voice, and I KNOW them, and they FOLLOW me:
Here is the question I would have you and others ponder:
If one HEARS, is KNOWN and FOLLOWS -- is that person CHOOSING TO LOVE THE LORD ???
*** OR *** IS GOD MAKING them LOVE HIM, HIS SON, HIS SPIRIT AND HIS WORD

Your question then - Is it about the sinner already saved - Or the sinner in his natural estate? Pre-saved?

If in the natural estate before grace, then you must deal with sin and it's power in the human condition.

Rom 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
14. For sin shall not have DOMINION over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace"

Clearly sin is a very powerful force in the human condition. Thus is it relevant in the question you ask.

The Lone Wolf wrote:
Minnow, A question for you. Isn't faith a fruit of the spirit according to Paul's letter to the Galatians 5 verse 22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
How can an unregenerated man who has not been quickened by the Holy Spirit exercise faith unto salvation when it is not listed as a work of the flesh. He does not have the Holy Spirit so how can he exercise spiritual fruit?
Faith unto salvation is wrought out by the Holy Spirit and the will of God the Father, not by the volition and self will of man.

As Of the Reformed Church I believe in God's sovereignty over the salvation of the Elect which HE has predestinated unto salvation before the world began.

The UNregenerate cannot do anything unto salvation as I stated below it is the Holy Spirit by grace which changes the sinners direction towards God.

Mans volition as I have posted before can achieve nothing spiritually unto following Christ until the Holy Spirit moves him to that end.

For example

Phil 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ"

1Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

5 Who are **KEPT** by the power of God through faith unto SALVATION ready to be revealed in the last time

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the SALVATION of your souls.

Casob
if you are not saved NOW, being kept by the power of God unto salvation. Can I suggest you make your calling and election sure.

The Lone Wolf wrote:
"What a man LOVES is what he will CHOOSE TO DO !!!"

So how does he explain how one who loves his sin all of a sudden hates his sin and begins to love a holy and righteous God. Does he do it by his own power or does God sovereignly intervene?

KK wrote:
There's a progression of events taking place ------- you can only lovingly lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink -- he must choose that for himself !!!

God draws
Jesus redeems and brings us to salvation.
HE promised.

Derek wrote:
Calvinism is a works of "non-works".

KK wrote:
John 10:
27) My sheep HEAR my voice, and I KNOW them, and they FOLLOW me:
Step #1: HEARING
Step #2: RELATIONSHIP
Step #3: FOLLOWING

Not just anybody.
Not everybody.
"MY" only
That which belongs to Christ.

Therefore

Step # 1 Establish ownership = **ELECTION**
Step # 2 HIS sheep(Elect) can hear.

ALIAS "Daddy" wrote:
It's just like a Calvinist to make something so simple inexplicably complicated.

Rather than try to steal a piece of the action for the sinner, excluding the Lord from the process. If the sinner initiates the process of "salvation" then he has not received grace and the Holy Spirit. Salvation by works - doesn't work and never has.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT OF GOD:
9 NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.

7. Because the carnal mind is ENMITY AGAINST God: for it is NOT SUBJECT to the law of God, NEITHER indeed CAN BE"

5 Even when we were DEAD in sins, HATH QUICKENED us together with Christ, (BY GRACE ARE YOU SAVED)

Dead - State of being completely unable to think, say or do anything.

Casob wrote:
I do not mean this to be offensive but only to illustrate the theology of the so called general call.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Cor 2.14

"This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man; who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it."WCF

Rom 9:11; Eph 2:4-5, 8-9; 2 Tim 1:9; Titus 3:4-5.
Rom 8:7; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:5.
Ezek 36:27; John 5:25; 6:37.

Casob get to a Reformed Church where the preaching will come from the Word of God, and not from the hypothesis of humanistic speculation.

Casob wrote:
Those men are not programmed as one would program a computer but allowed to act according to the dictates of their own free will.

2Tim 1:9 (God) Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, NOT according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began"

A] God saves
B] God calls - Thus HE initiates.
C] NOT in response to ANY human effort or attribute.
D] WHY? = ONLY because of God's own purpose and grace.
E] "which was given to us in Christ BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN"

Casob/Arminian/free willers - version of Scripture is
a] Man can save himself.
b] Man initiates salvation.
c] God only acts in obedience to the sinners decision.
d] God's purpose and grace are easily thwarted by the sinner.
e] Election by God is limited to man's making the right choice.

Who needs God eh???

Derek wrote:
Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by THE WORD OF GOD.
Pretty simple.

"This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man; who is altogether passive therein, UNTIL, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it."(WCF)

Rom 9:11; Eph 2:4-5, 8-9; 2 Tim 1:9; Titus 3:4-5.
Rom 8:7; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:5.
Ezek 36:27; John 5:25; 6:37.

During a time of obvious spiritual and moral decline in this nation, it is only to be expected that the Papal antichrist will rise in power.
This is recently also demonstrated in Ratzingers visit to the US too.
In both countries papistry is increasing by stealth, eg immigration.

Prov 29:16 When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.

Mike wrote:
For God so loved the few?
Agreement with God about man's condition is salvation by human effort?
God's agape love is to make the chosen few believe, and send the rest to hell?
Phew! This religion sounds in dire need of reforming.

When God sent Christ Jesus to the cross, did he think of the effect of the cross with respect to His elect differently from the way he thought of the effect of the cross with respect to all others?

If you answer no, it is very difficult to see any doctrine of election at all.

Whereas if you answer yes, then you head towards some kind of definite atonement.

Casob wrote:
Yes, God loves everybody!