But

From the beginning, God selected one people alone, from all the earth.

Deu 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Deu 10:15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day.

1Ki 6:13 And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will not forsake my people Israel.

[URL=http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/dispensationalism.html]]]The NT Church IS the continuation of this people[/URL]

Casob wrote:
Everything God is doimg now is in view of keeping the covenants he has made with Israel and with man in the past.

Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

John Yurich wrote:
Why do you and the other Fundamentalist Protestants on here believe that there are three requirement for salvation:
(1)Receive Christ as Savior
(2)Leave the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church and Mainline Protestant Churches
(3)Join a Fundamentalist Protestant Church?

We don't believe that John. Thats just your concept of what we believe.

Election by God, for no other reason than HE is capable of making His decision/choice without any help, (foreseen or otherwise) from the sinner, is the first step on the road to salvation.

This is how it goes John....

Order of Salvation...
election,
predestination,
gospel call
inward call
regeneration,
conversion (faith & repentance),
justification,
sanctification,
glorification.
(Rom 8:29-30)

Mike wrote:
1] You have said the Reformed church is the only true church.
2] I must assume there has always been a true church somewhere.
3] If there were a true church before the Reformation, what was it about the true church that needed reforming?
4] And if it were not the true church that needed reforming, why reform it? Why not remove and place within the true?

1] The controversial point of the "Invisible" Church, IS the Elect whom God brings to salvation.

2] You're correct in your assumption Mike.

3] God ordained the Reformation, to remove the Protestant Church from the clutches of heretical Roman dogma, which of course still exists today under the Papal antichrist. The "reforming" part was to create a Church which adhered to Biblical truth, precepts and doctine only.

4] What was "reformed" (rejected) was the papist erroneous teachings, so that the true Christians could return to the Scriptures alone.
However as can be observed today many chose to remain within Rome's false teachings.

Mike wrote:
Better to free will run for your life than to hope the North Korean dictator will become reformed.

I suspect the same question was posited about the Roman Catholic dictator prior to the 16th century Reformation.
But once God had established the True Church and Protested against the human enterprise which had become lethal, heretical and doctrinaire, HE returned the people to the Word of God.

The North Koreans are experiencing one of the most evil and oppresive governments, not to mention a
dictator-president who requires you to "worship" him and his dead daddy.
Clearly the president is as nutty as a fruit bat, and his minions are living off the fat of the land whilst the ordinary folk starve, live in misery and die.

People are vanishing into Labor camps and some never being seen alive again.

Talk about "conspiracy theory" - This is where it is being worked out in daily national life.

Meanwhile China assists the suffering by their own criminal activities, - or send the Koreans back to death camps.

Anybody doubt the awesome power of sin in the human condition???

Followed by this quote.....
"I had this experience of (my partner) after death, and he spoke to me"

Demonstrates the "crossroads" of his "faith" came when he turned to the abomination of homosexuality. He may as well go Pagan.

"Liberal" Quakers???

Yes you're absolutely right Jim. The Chinese are just as bad as the North Korean government.

We need to keep these people in our prayers.

Eph 2:16 "And that he might reconcile both unto God in ONE BODY by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
Eph 3:6 "That the Gentiles should be FELLOWHEIRS, and OF the SAME BODY, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel"
Eph 4:4 "There is ONE BODY, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling"

See Also::-

Acts 15:12-17
Rom 9:23-26
Rom 11:11-32
Gal 3:7-8, 13-14
Eph 2:11-22
Eph 3:5-6

Rom 2:28/29
28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Satan's minions are working hard in Canada to undermine the "rights" of the followers of Christ, thus earning for themselves a truly hellish eternity.

The Blessed part...

Matt 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

The hard part....

Casob wrote:
Now, when you make ridiculous statements, I am going to tell you and if you persist in demonstrating that you are totally clueless, I am going to just ignore you like I do Minnow.

And all that.

Or JD, is it because we grace filled Calvinists have been working so steadfastly to teach you what in fact the Bible really says.

One more time JD
The quest we have upon this thread is "Is the church and Israel one?"
By the grace of God alone the ELECT are one, with the Church Triumphant regardless of their nationality.

Now a word of kindly advice please dispense with dispensationalism.

"It's important for people to understand that the holy scriptures is a very nuanced document. I think we need to allow people room to come to a new understanding," said Dixon, the local newspaper reported."

Whilst you've got heretics like this in mainstream churches Anglican or otherwise you will feed the "opposing" Religion of Liberalism.
They contrive all kinds of devious ways to reject Scripture and therfore the Lord, and write their own social gospel bible. Thus they seek to "sanctify" the carnal sins of man and and make the abomination acceptable. A definite seed of Satan.

"nuanced" = 1. a subtle difference or distinction in expression, meaning, response, etc.
2. a very slight difference or variation in color or tone.

Rom 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness"

Derek wrote:
"You could ask these of God on circumcision. How was God able to circumcise the heart of 8 day old babies?"
He didn't circumcise their hearts. He circumcised their...
Didn't this doctrine originate in Rome?

No not in Rome Derek - In the Bible!!

Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked

Deut 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Jer 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah

## And look what happens when your heart is UNCircumcised...

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Derek wrote:
a] Tell me, how can baptizing an infant seal him or graft him into Christ?
b] This merits grace because you will need to wait for the child to grow up to prove weather or not he was chosen.
Pure heresy.
c] It is Jesus Christ who save completely, and in his own words "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
An infant can not repent!

You could ask these of God on circumcision. How was God able to circumcise the heart of 8 day old babies? I guess God works slightly different to the mortal?

Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but FEW CHOSEN

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but FEW are CHOSEN.

Mk 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the ELECT'S sake, whom he hath CHOSEN, he hath shortened the days.

Jo 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I CHOSEN you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Jo 15:16 Ye have NOT CHOSEN ME, but I have CHOSEN you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit,

Jo 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have CHOSEN YOU OUT OF the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Derek wrote:
I love it when people forget to gard their speech and let their words reveal their heart.
"So don't forget folks, "Once a Calvinist always a Christian.' "
"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power (authority) thereof."
And the authority is Jesus Christ...NOT CALVIN.

As for whom the "authority" is - We the Reformed Church always speak of and acknowledge the "Sovereignty" of God. It is you the Arminian/Free willers who demote God from being Supreme Creator.
May God guide you into all Truth.

Look here is a verse which addresses Total Sovereignty and of course thereby Unconditional Election.

Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen"

Mike wrote:
His eternal nature does not dictate how he must act within the bounds of time.

Faith wrote:
As though the real Christians never existed until the Reformation,

Jo 8:32 "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free"