There is nothing that church builders can do. The Lord alone adds to the church according to the good pleasure of his will. Moreover, he does it by grace and by faith alone. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" - not by "seeing".

moonj69 wrote:
The reason why you can't find any commandments about polygamy in the New Testament is because the New Testament is not based upon law, but upon grace.
If polygamy is so wrong, then why does God NOT include it in his laws regarding human sexuality in Leviticus 18, and why does Jesus never speak out against it? If anything, divorce is MUCH worse than polygamy...according to the Bible anyway!
. . . See the faulty logic?

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife (note that it does not say wives): and they shall be one flesh". Gen. 2:24, Jesus repeats this verse in Matt. 19:5. If he were to approve of multiple wives, it would have been an excellent time to make the revision then.

"All men can not receive this saying, save they to whom it is given." Matt. 19:11

son of Oak wrote:
Dr. Phil,
Maybe YOU need to get a bible you can understand?

son of Oak wrote:
Dr. Phil,
You may need to see Dr. Phil or any licensed psychiatrist. Get some help. Your comment was so ridiculous it doesn't even merit a comment.

It is not I who needs the shrink. In your case, I would recommend that you study the Bible more before you preach your papal licentious doctrine. "Study to show thyself approved . . .".

Mike wrote:
Here's a novel idea. Substitute "pornographer," or "child abuser," in place of "gay or lesbian person" above. Take them into your home. Get to know them and listen to their hurts, and joys and interests. Etc. Should be equally valid for them as for homosexuals, shouldn't it? After all none of us can ever measure up.

Then again, I wonder how he would deal with false prophets (e.g. Kenneth and Gail Copeland, Chuck Colson, Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen). These are more dangerous than the reprobates above. Yet, John the evangelist said: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." 2 Jn. 10-11

Euro-African wrote:
Hi guys, reading your contributions, and many others' blogs, I have reached two views:
1. MOST RACISTS in the USA are to be found in the Christian Church. and Recism is a SIN.
2. Despite its technological advancements, the USA may potentially contain the most ignorant people that should know better.

DJC49 wrote:
_____
So what's to be made of Rev 21:14?
"And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the TWELVE apostles of the Lamb."
Seems as though the AUTHOR of The Revelation considered there to be only 12 apostles. Not 13.

1. He was selected by the other Apostles before Pentecost (the out pouring of the Holy Spirit)

2. He was selected by the OT method of casting lots.

Observation Post wrote:
Not much resistance to the Truth here so I'm right behind you...

JD wrote:
Sola Scriptura wrote
Observation Post, do you really think those verses proved Limited Atonement? If you think so, you are in bad shape.
____
Don't you get it yet? These boys are not trying to prove the Scriptures are right, they are trying to prove Sola Calvinism.
One cannot do both!

Where have you been man? I see you still haven't repented, and you still "kick against the truth". Well you have a friend in Mr. Solo.

Sola Scriptura wrote:
Phil...Phil
You need help. You said, "If rejection of the offer of salvation is a sin, and Jesus died for all the sins of all men, why is this sin not paid for?" His sin is not paid for because he did not receive it. You you reject a gift, you don't have it. Your past "sin" of rejection will be paid for only if you stop rejecting.

It is not I who needs help, your arguments make no sense.

Keep flying Solo, and we shall see where you land.

As for me, I am exiting this rabbit hole.

Observation Post wrote:
Eze 34:31 And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, [are] men, [and] I [am] your God, saith the Lord GOD.
Truth. God's flock (sheep) are men while the uncircumcized in heart and flesh are unclean strangers. (Ezek 44:7)
Hbr 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Truth and properly understood in light of Ezek 34:31.
Jhn 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Truth for "the sheep" are God's flock.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Truth for the Church is the Israel of God. (Gal 6:16)

Solo, Solo,

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:"

"There is none righteous, (except infants according to the SP), no, not one".

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them (infants) that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression".

Sola Scriptura wrote:
Jesus died for every man
Phil...Phil
Semi-Pelagianism is irrational to an irrational man.
1. Made needs life again (be born again) because he died when he sinned at the age accountability.
2. I thought you understood 1 Cor. 2:14. I guess not. Here is what it means. Man cannot of himself receive the things of the spirit, He needs the Holy Spirit first. Even you need the Holy Ghost to receive the things of the Spirit. That is why God sent the comforter down (to teach and to lead us to truth so that we know to receive the things of the Spirit).
3. Hell was created for the Devils and his angels. Its existence has nothing to do with what man does. Men are in Hell because they rejected the free gift of salvation (which is in effect rejecting Jesus). This free gift to all can only be made possible if Christ died for all.

1. Where is age of accountability in scripture? "They come forth out of the womb speaking lies", "In sin did my mother conceive me."

2. But you said "men are not dead but alive", so why can he not receive the things of the spirit of God?

Sola Scriptura wrote:
Semi-Pelagianism fits in well with the concept that Jesus died for every man. God wants to buy back or redeem man from his sin. Have ever looked at those words, Reconciliation (to restore to favor or friendship), redemption (to buy back), Regenerate (to renew, retore, generate again). These are Semi-Pelagian terms.

Semi-pelagianism may fit in well with your concept, but it does not agree with the truth of scripture. As far as the terms you mention, these are not consistent with Semi-pelagianism.

Regeneration, (re-birth) is illogical and unnecessary if a man is already alive as you say and he understands spiritual things by nature. Also, 1 Cor. 2:14 is therefore meaningless, because the natural man by his own ability can receive the things of the spirit of God and he does not think them to be foolish because he is able to know them since they are not spiritually discerned but understood naturally.

Moreover, if Jesus died for every man, then Hell is not necessary, and the Bible lies for saying that it exists. Otherwise, Jesus' blood is insufficient to pay for the sins of those in Hell.

Sola Scriptura wrote:
Jesus died for every man.
Dr. Phil, you need more than grace. I am confident I can help you.

Solo,

"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." As I said, I have not the ability to reach a man's heart like you. That power belongs to God alone. I have heard the same arguments you present before many times. They are all misrepresentations of the truth of scripture to support your natural inclinations. You will not submit to the belief of the truth, because "unless a man BE born again he cannot see the kingdom of God".

You quote Adam Clarke when your handle is "Sola Scriptura", and you call on a blind man to help me see.

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell of heavenly things?" Jn. 3:11-12

Sola Scriptura wrote:
Jesus died for all men. The Bible's semi-Pelagian theology does go with the previous statement.
Dr. Phil you never said where my argument is wrong. Furthermore, if you try, I will prove you wrong yet again. Nothing a Calvinist can send my way phases me. The Bible deals with error effectively.
Minnow, none of your Scripture proves Limited Atonement or Calvinism.
1 Cor. 2:14: Of course the natural man receives not the things of the spirit. Obviously he must receive the spirit before can accept his things.
Next...
John 15:5 Of course we cannot obtain salvation without Christ. He gets it started and gets it finished. We are like a drowning man. We call and He performs the work. Since Jesus died for every man, he lets man know that he is drowning in the first place.
Rom. 8:7 Yeah. Thats why man must get a new mind (Rom 2:14-15). He realizes he needs a new mind and is willing to get rid of it. The carnal mind is really only a regular mind (capable of coming to Christ) that is focused on carnal things (like sports or food). Sports and food are not bad. They are only bad if they supersede spiritual things.

rogerant wrote:
Keeping to the Survey Topic? I believe that there could be some interesting discussion between 2-4 point or moderate Calvinists with 5 point (Reformed) Calvinists regarding the extent of the Atonement. If asking us to stick to the survey question, would we be the point of discussion with semi-Pelagians and Arminians. We don't agree on total depravity, irresistable grace and unconditional election. The discussion with them on the survey topic is moot.
As for those who use their belief in or against particular atonement as the listhmus test for salvation, you don't know Christ. You have placed your faith either in your theology, or works for your salvation. Remember, we must look outside of ourselves for salvation, not at our books or navels.

Sola Scriptura wrote:
Dr. Phil, everybody already knows that God hardened Pharaoh's heart. I don't count this as quoting Scripture b/c Rom 9:16 does not prove your point. If anything it proves my point.
My point? Phil, read the verse slowly again. There is not a bone of Calvinism in it.
1. "Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up" Its not for this purpose have I created you. Raise up to power. God can choose evil men for His purposes.
2. "..show my power in thee..my name might be declared throughout all the earth." God wanted all men to know Him.
3. God has mercy on those who love him and obey His commandments. God hardens those who ignore His conviction (you can't buy time with God).
Phil your statements are institutes. God hardened (perhaps passively, it doesn't really matter) Pharaoh's heart temporarily (never towards salvation though).

You employ the following fallacious arguments, can you spot them:

Argument by equating the reason with the cause to assert the consequent.

Argument by misdirection, and false emphasis.

Argument by begging the question, (i.e. tautology)

Argument by "Non Sequitur".

Michael Hranek wrote:
Dr. Phil
Sola Scriptura
Interesting exchange.
. . .some who zealously claim to be Calvinists and exhibit an elitist uncaring attitude towards others that perhaps God has hardened their hearts?
. . .Please understand there are many who claim to be Calvinists who love and care for others but then again it is pretty observable there are others who even go so far in their perferred system of theology that they would use (abuse) the power of the state to persecute non-Calvinists even as far as to put outspoken non-Calvinsts to death . . .

Also, did not the Lord tell Moses even before he went to see Pharaoh that "he would harden Pharaoh's heart"?

Exodus 4:21

And "And the Lord said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him: . . ." Exodus 10:1

Sola Scriptura wrote:
Calvinists have this elitist callous mentality. It is not caring, and just plain stupid. They need to get real with the Bible. You notice that they never quote from the Bible. They think the institutes are the Bible.

If you have concluded that Calvinists "never quote from the Bible", then it is you that has not noticed much. Nevertheless, see if you can notice this:

"But these speak evil of those things which they know not; but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves." Jude 10

"For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore, hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth." Rom. 9:16

This is not the "institutes" but "Sola Scriptura".