What other reason could these gifts be for?

I'll never believe that God does not delight in a creation of praise from one of his servants. I could just never believe that.

I'm drawn to a lot of opinion here as it's so different from what I've been exposed too. Different but with obvious best intentions.

I've learned much from the offered links that I enjoy studying.

The song the people of Isreal sang, after the Egyptians were destroyed by the Red Sea.

Good observation Lance.

Many good points from all.

Hearing encouraging things from mgarsteck. Glad you checked in brother.

I find in my life the internet can be a big time drain though.

The Grassy Knoll is a real place in Dallas TX, associated with a lot of unanswered questions regarding the assasination of John F Kennedy.

This is not a good place to pass of nonsense as fact. You just aren't accomplishing anything.

Last week it was a 14 year old boy who had his head sawed off by a group of men because he was a Christian.

His name was Ayad Tariq.

This week it's Bashir Ahmad Tantray. Another defenseless victim.

Mike don't be so easily fooled. It wasn't really George Bush. It was ROVE. He set up missionary murder to hide the weapons of mass destruction that were transferred to Halliburton. It's obvious. Rove kicks people in the crotch for fun. Bush had to cover for him so they fixed the voting machines, told the Jews, kicked every 3rd person in the crotch, and blamed it on the Muslims.

How come you didn't call when you were here?

I remember an article stating the Australian Govt position to fight the so-called Global war on terror for the long haul. The Prime Minister was critical towards Europe for not recognizing the changing landscape (in his opinion of course). We're aware of your countries sacrifices.

I’m new around here. Yes I know I talk a lot. It’s been a lifelong problem I find the deeper I get into my walk with the Lord, the less nationalism I feel, and the more I long to be in a Christian community with like minded brothers and sisters.

I love my country. It’s not that, it’s just a feeling that politicians are the same everywhere.

IMO the true diamonds of heart are scattered about. You don’t find them bunched up in one church or country. (which really makes the 4 Beatles in Liverpool even more miraculous).

Sure there are fine Christians everywhere, and who really knows a mans heart, but the people who really love the Word, and long to live it, and fear the Lord, and seek his light all the time everyday, are in my experience rare.

My heart aches to fellowship in a community of like-minded spirits.

Wade, thanks for the book tip. Everyone has different areas of expertise. I find it helpful when people offer reading tips in areas they are strong.

Sorry.

I'm not well versed in this at all. I know a little. Just basic theory, but I am curious.

Apostasy-a falling away from the faith. Why is that almost always associated with gradual process?

Why wouldn't it be like maybe a mass exodus from the church that is prompted by persecution. People choosing to renounce Christ in exchange for their necks?

Also do you see a church like saddleback as steeling members from other churches and leading them astray?

My impression is that these, for the most part, are not serious Christians. They use these churches as social and clique gatherings and as you said a feather in their cap. Doing the religous thing.

Links?

"But I thought the subject was Rick Warren blasting the Iraq war"

I thought the subject was Rick Warren praising Syria. It was addressed so well by the first two posters that
the only way to add to the topic was to further expose Rick Warren. People are going to disagree on the war. Not on Syria and it's well known ties to terrorism and murder.

Nothing against attractive young people.

On the Saddleback website, the photos take up about 20 % of the front page, and they are centered to draw your eye. They also rotate to keep your attention.

It's an insult to our intelligence.

That is not a website designed to serve Christians in their spiritual growth.

I can't recall even seeing the name Jesus, but the fresh faces are burned in my lobes.

God bless the kids. Jesus loves them. We want nothing but the best for every one of them.

Nothing personal. God bless them all, but is this first thing we need to know about saddleback Church?

I don’t know much about Rick Warren and I will read the posted links. Thank you.

Every time I see Rick Warren I think if Hollywood were ever looking for a hip looking pastor to cast in a 30-minute sitcom, that pastor would look and act and sound just like Rick Warren.

The comedy would be a big hit and the world would love him…sort of exactly like what he’s doing now.

I enjoy reading other points of view too. I thought this was a very sad article.

I like your point. It's hard to believe a group of intelligent men and women who deal with everything man can't understand everyday, could have so much faith in mankind. Boggles the mind.

The very gifts that make a scientist effective will make it very hard for him/her to have faith in what is not seen. I feel bad for them. I'm glad we have them though. Without them we wouldn't be able it interact in this manner.

The other thing that I was unaware of is the level of animosity towards religion. I assumed ambivalent feelings from the science community to a degree, but the level of hostility surprised me.

I really feel Science and The Church Body have a lot to offer each other.

One scientist talks of trying to have a supernatural experience by doing something to his brain.

Ugh, what a mess. IMO we're capable of much better as a body of believers. A scientist seeking to understand how the human body reactes to the supernatural should have an ally in the church IMO.

Agile and lean and able to change direction quickly as the situation called for it. A powerful yet flexible force.

To bring about this change he used an inflexible, rigid, stubborn and intolerant management style.

If you can bury 2 bombs a night do you make more money than a guy that can only bury one?

Just a fierce, fierce outfit.

Tremendous Buriers.

Unless you're women and children or unarmed these guys are just not a very impressive group.

They have a very clear view of relations with Christians and Jews as we all know. They're not afraid to express them.