Thank you for your response and the scriptural references. I don’t claim that one can brush them aside or that they are easily reconcilable with evolution. The problem arises when you are a Christian in the scientific world. “Because the Bible says so” is not an acceptable explanation for physical phenomena. I can’t report my data in a scientific journal and explain my results with “God made it that way”. There are lots of reasons why I can’t do that, not the least of which is that it would open the door to countless crackpot justifications from “Allah wills it” to “Aliens designed it so”. The material universe may not be able to provide explanations for all we observe but science itself is limited to the material.

You ask two very good questions and the answers require more space than I honestly have, but I will do my best to do them justice.

If I found evidence that the atonement had not actually occurred, rock solid physical proof that the body of Jesus was in an earthly grave for instance, I certainly would stop believing in Christianity because it would be evident that it was nothing more than a fairytale. No such evidence exists of course, nor am I at all worried that it will ever be produced, so I don’t worry about that. I’m not claiming that the Bible contains falsehood; I’m saying maybe we were never intended to take Genesis literally in the first place. I’m fully aware however that without a literal belief in the atonement we should all just sleep in on Sunday mornings.

Publican:

Indeed we should have no fear, which is why I engage the subject of evolution head on and don’t dismiss information before I’ve evaluated it. I think it’s fine if we disagree on Genesis. I don’t consider it a salvation issue, just a fun discussion topic among Christian brothers. What I try hard to discourage is the widespread and ridiculous belief that scientists are hiding the truth.

For the Record:

I think I would agree that the Bible affirms duties and privileges before rights as far as our relationship to God is concerned. The only time I think "rights" is an appropriate word is between human beings, such as civil rights or human rights. You and I, as fellow humans, are equals and as such I think we have certain rights to opportunities and resources that God gives to all humans.

Publican: I can’t think of anything at the moment. That’s part of the problem. In order to ensure you don’t get an incorrect education on evolution it takes a lot of work. You really need to go through at least a couple of years of college level biology. I can send you .pdfs of some very good scientific journal articles though.

Faithful Remnant: “…doubt the Genesis account as is are either confused or unregenerate.” I have to say, that may indeed be how you feel but you cannot know this about others.

“…casuistry about weights…”

Fascinating that you would say this Neil. Read Amos 8 in context. In fact, here are the verses that immediately precede and follow the verse about dishonest scales.

4 Hear this, you who trample the needy and do away with the poor of the land,

6 buying the poor with silver and the needy for a pair of sandals, selling even the sweepings with the wheat.

Unmistakably this is about the rich cheating the poor not abuse of merchants by the government or the poor. To sell the “sweepings with the wheat” is to get full price while cheating the customer out of what they paid for.

How about Hosea 12:7?

7 A merchant loves to extort with dishonest scales in his hands.

Micah 6:11-12
11 Can I excuse wicked scales or bags of deceptive weights?
12 For the wealthy of the city are full of violence, and its residents speak lies; the tongues in their mouths are deceitful.

How about Proverbs 28:6, 15?

“As far as defining the Word of God as "some" of the Bible and not all, you are in great error.”

I’m not defining the Word of God as the Bible at all. The Word of God is Jesus and nothing else. The Bible in my opinion contains the words of God. What I meant by “some” is that not even the Bible is a full and complete revelation of Jesus, as if what is in the Bible is all we will ever know of him. Though I do believe it contains what we need to know for salvation.

I can see your point with regard to death before the fall, and I would say my knowledge of both the natural world and the Genesis account are limited and I’m willing to believe that both are incomplete.

“Which words in the Bible are you going to trust?”

I trust in all of it to lead me to salvation. I believe as historical fact all of the N.T. and most of the O.T.

“How can you know for sure then that those Scriptures you are counting on for salvation are trustworthy?”

That’s not a fair characterization Neil. You are starting from the assumption that scripture proves your point and then telling me because I can use examples to object to your personal point of view that I must not want to submit to scripture. You should honestly be above such a thing. It simply isn’t necessary to speak to me with anger because I’m not your enemy; I’m your brother.

“Do you regret they weren't taxed more?”

I regret that for many years computers were not recycled or properly disposed of and now poison land fills with extremely toxic heavy metals. Now (at least in CA, maybe every state) a disposal fee is added to the price of all electronics so that most parts can be recycled and the rest disposed of safely.

“Why is preserving tigers a good thing?”

Are you kidding? They are God’s creation. They’re awesome creatures that don’t deserve to be hunted to extinction. Do you really think “dominion” implies we can just exterminate whole species?

I'm capable of being convinced by evidence from scripture. My point is that the evidence you've presented is not actually supportive of the point you're trying to make. Please tell me how the "false balances" or the Ahab story makes your point better than the interpretation I gave them earlier.

I hate to say it Neil but if my last post is any indication your appeals to Scripture are not relevant to the point you’re trying to make. You’ve not shown how the Bible explicitly supports the kind of “humanistic capitalism” the Pope was condemning in the article above nor have you shown how the Bible upholds property rights as absolute. The Bible shows how to be righteous and God-fearing in a capitalist system, but that is not the same as commanding followers of Christ to be capitalists anymore than the scripture’s praise for the righteous kings of Israel is an order from God for the US to be a monarchy. It says a lot about stealing but either as a warning to the powerful not to oppress the weak or as a warning against materialism and covetousness. My lack of an appeal to scripture to give a definition to the word “fair” hardly invalidates my position.

“…if any resource becomes scarce, what happens to market demand for it?

“It is theft to legally fix prices or control supply…”

That simply is not true. It all has to do with how much of the resource in question exists (fish stocks, rare old growth trees for lumber, animals for pelts, etc.). Many resources are either dependent on natural growth cycles or are non-renewable (oil, minerals, etc.). We cannot recklessly extract/harvest them or we may find that they are gone forever. Calif. used to have huge ancient redwoods but they were harvested almost to the point of extinction before the government halted logging.

Just doing a quick search of "false balances" I found Hosea 12:7, Amos 8:5, Micah 6:11. They’re all warnings against lying merchants, not enforcing government or community standards.

1 Ki. 21 on the other hand is a story of Ahab stealing from an honest man for his own pleasure. How does that relate to what I’m talking about?

Earlier questions: Yes, I do support taxes on luxury goods; especially on companies who mistreat their workers or cause pollution. I think if one wants to own a hummer that’s fine but it would be fair in my opinion to make that person pay into a fund that is used to off-set the impact of their ridiculous car (road maintenance, alternative fuel research etc.).

“…if Biblical law principles are upheld, human dignity is as well.”

Indeed. My point is only that this is due to the fact that the primary concern of “Biblical law principles” relating to both business and government is honesty in business dealings and stewardship of the resources God gives us. I think it goes too far to conclude that God actively endorses or promotes capitalism. I would have the same problem if I heard someone claim God endorses democracy, monarchy, socialism, libertarianism or any other economic or political human creation because of principles or examples found in scripture.

“…in what way are they not absolute?”

They aren’t absolute if they begin to negatively impact the welfare of the larger community. My individual right to do what I want with my land does not trump my neighbors’ collective right to be free from harm. I don’t think the gov’t has the right to tell people what to do with their land in all cases but it has a perfect right to protect the community from individuals or corporations that are causing harm.

At no point have I ever said that Humanistic alternatives to capitalism are the answer. I think you're overreacting a bit to my point that “humanistic capitalism” has major flaws that hold people in bondage and pollute our air, water, etc. You won’t hear me soon say: “Hey Comrade Neil, let’s use our government vouchers to buy shoes this week”. Isn’t it possible that there is a middle ground between these extremes? Let’s have capitalism, sure, but let’s do it in a way that respects property and human dignity.

"If it can be shown that Scripture affirms the essential components of this definition, it's fair to deduce it is Scriptural."

I honestly don't see affirmation in your examples, I see only pragmatism. Without the rules prescribed by the Old Testament capitalism wouldn't function, but that strikes me as an example of God affirming only that if people are going to be righteous capitalists they must be honest and fair in their dealings with one another. That's different from God actively prohibiting all other economic systems or explicitly listing capitalism as a commandment for faithful followers.