Mike wrote: How about an alternate understanding? Perhaps we do not *have* a soul, but we *are* a soul. Take a look at Genesis 2:7- "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." This verse would seem to provide a formula of sorts: body+spirit=soul.
Thank you, Mike. We "are" a soul. Body + spirit = soul is a good way to think on it.
That first breath of life from God to Adam was something no other human received. That is something to think on.
Alan H wrote: My family and I listened to this sermon this last Lord's day (10-29-08). Perhaps someone might be interested in more information on this topic. [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=914081731428]]]" Women Civil Magistrates?" - Joe Morecraft III[/URL]
the doc wrote: I'm a little confused by your last para, above. 1] Are you saying we will have the spirit that is the Holy Spirit? 2] Do you mean "new bodies" - in heaven? 3] If our flesh is to be redeemed - why then do we get new bodies in heaven? 4] A "new spirit" - at salvation? Do you mean a complete change of body and spirit? Thus will our present body/spirit cease to exist? Will we then have no memory of our earthly existance?
Fair enough. . I knew I would be in trouble for being so vague, and I am not sure that I can justify what I said.
Let me think on this. But, at this point, I can say that we will have resurrected bodies as does the Lord Jesus, and we will definitely have memory of our earthly existence continuing those relationships that we now have. We are now born of the Holy Spirit, even as God breathed life into Adam when he was created in the Garden of Eden. That which was spiritual died when Adam sinned. Jesus said to Nicodemus, "You must be born again." He was speaking of the Spirit of God breathing new life into us. That part of us will continue after our physical death, and will be united with a resurrection body in the day of the Lord.
the doc wrote: Why? The first Adam was made like this, (no sin) his disobediece changed him. But that does not make him any the less our ancestor. The discussion here is whether the Lord used Mary's egg or not. Do you ever think we will really know? But even if the Lord did use her egg, to suggest that He then could not create a perfect human body from this divine conjunction, is an attack upon His omnipotence. But finally to put you all out of your misery here is the solution..... Jesus did not carry the sin chromosome.
Well, Doc, (are you a medical doctor?), there is no question about the omnipotence of God, except by the fool.
God chooses to reveal Himself to us through what He has created.
"The heavens declare His Glory and the earth His Handiwork."
I don't think sin is passed down by a chromosome. Our sin condition is a spiritual one manifested in our flesh.
When we are born again of the Spirit, it is the same spirit that we will have in heaven - in our new bodies. We wait for the redemption of our flesh, suffering the effects of the curse, to be united with our new spirit which has been given to us at salvation.
ENGINEER wrote: Although Jesus grew in the womb of Mary,in the same manner as any baby,he was different from all other babies. It appears that he was not genetically related to either Mary or Joseph, for both had an inherited sin nature.
I don't buy into this premise, but given Mr. Taylor's premise, why would the geneology of Jesus be given in Matthew for lineage through Joseph, and in Luke for lineage through Mary?
Why was it necessary to have a lineage at all?
Every woman, knowing the PROMISE of the Messiah from Eve onward, and later given to Abraham,as coming through him, hoped that she would be the one to be used by God to bring about redemption, given our first mother was instrumental in the fall of man.
Redeemed humanity only makes sense, if the Redeemer is of the same nature, likeness, etc., only without sin.
P.S. I made a statement earlier, that I find questionable. I recant linking the blood of Jesus to being newly created by the Holy Spirit. "The LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD" statement in Lev. is mysterious, and that which is of the Spirit is of the Spirit. That is all that I am prepared to say.
Lurker wrote: If I may.... much like you and DJC49. Some of the strongest and most likeminded Christians I know came to their conversion (a real conversion by the will and operation of God) at an extremely desparate point in their lives and that includes me. As Jesus told Paul... "my strength is made perfect in weakness."
I think there has to be that "wrestling with the Lord," as Jacob did in Genesis 32.
"Then Jacob was left alone; and a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day. Now when He saw that He did not prevail against him, He touched the socket of his hip; and the socket of Jacob's hip was out of joint. .
.And He said, "Let Me go, for the day breaks."
But he said, "I will not let You go unless You bless me!"
So He said to him, "What is your name?"
He said, "Jacob."
And He said, "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled with God and with men and have prevailed."
Even so, WE have a new name. . we are called: "sons of God," "saints," "Christians," "Beloved," "Ambassadors of God," "the Redeemed," "Chosen," "His jewels when He makes up His Kingdom."
That's a good way to start the day!
To the Eternal God be all Glory and Honor and Praise!
kenny wrote: "Why waste time on this issue? You can't change the world.' It's not my intention to change the world.
It's so discouraging yet preachers are scared to address it. I have no qualms at all about speaking out
Please forgive me for appearing flippant.
You sound frustrated with the changing culture. I can empathize. I'd like the "Andy of Mayberry" times, too. The thing is, the "Andy of Mayberry" time was a time where there was still a veneer of morality. The ugliness of "sin" is now too apparent, and we don't like it. We like people to do the right thing - even expect it, but, the fact is all that morality in and of itself does nothing toward the salvation of lost souls.
The light shines brightest against a black backdrop. Perhaps, these dark days will awaken people to consider the wretchedness of the human condition.
Let us pray for a powerful moving of the Holy Spirit, apart from which all of man's efforts are in vain.
God bless you, and my heart goes out to you as I perceive this is very grievous to you.
God calls us to "humble ourselves and call upon His name, and we shall be saved." When Christ lives in us, we gladly submit one to another.
kenny wrote: savedbygrace wrote: "No where in Scripture do we find the command for man to be submissive to his wife. This would lead to total disorder and a breakdown in the family unit." Bullseye. That is exactly what we are witnessing all around us, . . for 29 years she has never been anything other than a Godly, submissive woman.
Praise God that you have a Godly wife and that your home is in order. Why waste time on this issue? You can't change the world.
If alcohol were the issue, would you suggest shutting down all the liquor stores? Prohibition? That wouldn't work.
When the transforming power of the Holy Spirit works in hearts to bring men and women to the Lord, and they are new creations, submission will not be an issue. You are dealing with symptoms and not the problem - depraved hearts, separated from God. Why fret over sinners doing what sinners do?
Preach the gospel. The Holy Spirit will change hearts through the preaching of the word.
savedbygrace wrote: Christiana, Greetings! It all begins with James 4:7 and submitting to God.
You know, this is not a problem in our home, nor has it been a real issue in my life. Somehow, I was too busy working to be drawn into the victim mentality of feminism.
I grew up in a home with lots of males, and we had plenty of debates about issues, and my voice was equally heard. Gender role was never an issue.
In my education, I was treated with respect by my peers.
In the work world, I was treated with equal respect. Gender was never an issue. It only seems to be one in the religious world.
I am much more interested in the salvation of souls than I am in defending the roles of human beings.
Respectfully, I say to you, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," and, may God bless your efforts to be a loving shepherd, bowing, as did the the Lord Jesus to wash the feet of the disciples. If you do this, you will have no problem from subordinates.
I have enjoyed reading your posts and I recall your early frustration as Defender of Truth. I also recall Lyn had a similar encounter several months back which drove her away for a few months but praise God she came back. God's blessings to you and yours.
Lurker and lyn,
Sorry I did not pick up your posts last evening. Your kind and gracious words would have been nice to reflect on at the end of the day.
So, I'll reflect on them this morning.
Thanks to you both for taking the time to post words of encouragement.
lyn, your testimony of God's deliverance in your life is a blessing. That's what He does in our lives - makes us new creations and then leaves us here to witness.
Lurker, thanks for coming out of the shadows to encourage.
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."
DJC49 wrote: As I recall, Christiana, your so-called "blunder" was your stating that the *U* in the acronym TULIP stood for "Unconditional Love." But that's NOT what gave me a laugh!
- BTW ... after thinking about it, God's Unconditional Love being mistaken for God's Unconditional Election is NOT wrong at all! Matter of fact, I rather prefer it!
Thank you DJC49 for that kind statement concerning my blunder. You really do have a heart. Mums the word.
You have a remarkable memory of that exchange that happened months ago.
I guess I sided with JD some of time because I'm for the underdog. I saw him as lacking in understanding - needing Truth spoken with grace. Boy, would he be offended by that comment - or maybe he would laugh! I was the ONE who did not size the situation up accurately.
Neil wrote: ML & Christiana, some ammo for you: [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority]]]argumentum ad verecundiam[/URL] Pulling rank is a sign of desperation. A pastor tried that on me once - "I have a degree..."
Did you write that entry for Wikipedia? Sounds like you.
Looking at some of your posts, I concluded you must be Neil deGrasse Tyson - you know, the astrophysicist.
Okay, I'm sure DJC49 and Engineer are laughing at that comment, but you do have a wealth of information, and you challenged my thinking a few weeks back.
ml. . . I wish I could have warned you not to reveal your gender.
You lose most of your credibility on this site, once they know, although some are kind and will toss you a comment now and then when they are not engaging in their truly intellectual discussions.
I entered this site as DefenderofTruth and held my own in their discussions until I revealed my gender, though I did make a blunder on one of the points of Calvinism that made DJC49 laugh. It was downhill thereafter with links to messages on women and their role of mother and wife.
Advice: Stay out of the discussion on women in positions of authority such as Sarah Palin and her VP candidacy. You will surely have Engineer post a link to Knox's message on that "monstrous regiment of women!"
Oh, well, you can come back with another alias and re-claim your exalted status as a male, or stay with your current alias and defend your gender. It's a man's world
Nice to meet you! I look forward to reading your link on the blood of Christ.