HA! It seems to me a sovereign god such as yours would be offended that someone is trying to change his program.

Beware of the men in the white suits. They are coming to take you away, hey, hey, they are coming to take you away ho, ho.

Again thank you for your post, but are you trying to side track the issue to that of dispensationalism...btw I am not a dispensationalist.
_

Michael

You would be in good company if you were a dispensationalist. The great Paul certainly was. He wrote: Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you–ward:
He knew that gentiles had not been included heretofore in the great covenant promises of God and he makes this point in Ep 2. Read verse 12.

Now, if their inclusion took place in a particular time in history and the basis of their inclusion by God himself was not promise, that is the fulfillment of any particlar promise in those covenants to them, as it was to the Jews, and it was not by works, that is they have done nothing to earn the right to be included in those covenants, then would it not have been simply by God's grace? Grace is now the operative principle wherein God is dealing with the whole world and that has been your argument to these calvinists. He is not condemning them, they are already condemned, he is offering them pardon and salvation on the merits of Christ's sacrifice.

JD, in the parable of the sower, we find a very interesting fact, notice the condition must first be good and honest. This is not the condition of natural man
___

Here you are reading yur theology into the passage. The Lord says nothing about himself preparing the heart. He just makes an observation about the seed and the soil. This is a foundational parable speaking about the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven and the condition of the Jewish people in this age.

The surprised disciples asked him why he spoke to them in parables and his answer:

Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Mt 13:15 For this people’s heart (Israel's) is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

In Mt 18-23 our Lord explains the soil condition and in neither case of the soil condition has he made it his fault that the seed did not bear fruit. (But you make it his fault).

The word was sown in the heart in every case.

The heart must first be sprinkled with clean water and purified.
_

First before what? If it is before the salvation of the soul then we are looking squarely at a false gospel that carries the same anathema as that of the Galatian heresy. It troubled those prideful Jews also that others could be accepted by God on the same basis as they.

Salvation is the result of believing the gospel, not the cause of it. The Scriptures always says that clearly. This is an example. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. The religious insinuate something like this: Be regenerated by the Holy Spirit and be given life and thou shalt believe. Those who preach this error should be warned to not go out into eternity to meet God after having preached such a doctrine.

My fellow pilgrims,

The Scripture says the method of God's salvation is not election from the foundation of the world but the word of God itself.

He says in Ro 1:16 that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes it and in 1 Pe 1, he says it is the agency of the new birth.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

What was determined before the foundation of the world was that all those so saved would be "in Christ", that is in his body, the church, which he is forming from among the gentiles in this very hour.

1) Do you calvinists believe that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and, though men wrote it, it expresses the very thoughts of God himself?

2) If your answer is yes (And I am not betting the farm that it is) do you believe that the following words are an expression of God's desire for Israel and not just the thoughts of the apostle Paul?

Brethren, my hearts desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth.

There is no way this statement by the Holy Spirit fits Calvinists exclusive theology.

They have zeal without knowledge
They are self righteous
They have not submitted themselves to God's righteousness, belief in Christ

This statement is your real problem and is a presupposition which causes you to have a false theology because it just is not true:
_

You wrote:
Dead men can't believe and be saved. they must be "born of the spirit" before they can believe.
_

No language in Scripture will support that. Following is just one of many examples that refutes it without commentary.

Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

But you miss the whole point of Rom 9-11. This is about who are
"children" of God and those who have a special birth, as did Isaac, are said to be the children of God. This is not limited to those of physical Israel, though they are the first recipients of it and are those to whom the promise of the Spirit was given, but it includes the gentiles as well.

1) Do you calvinists believe that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and, though men wrote it, it expresses the very thoughts of God himself?

2) If your answer is yes (And I am not betting the farm that it is) do you believe that the following words are an expression of God's desire for Israel and not just the thoughts of the apostle Paul?

Brethren, my hearts desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God but not according to knowledge. For they going about to establish their own righteousness have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth.

You got yours from these verses because they have certain key words in them but you do not try to understand them in the context in which they are given.
Take Jn 15:16 as a for instance. They are told why they are chosen and it is for service, not salvation. An honest person wouldnot have to be told this.
_

You wrote
Yet you said that no one had given you a single text to show that election
was unconditional.
_

I didn't say that but I will. I said you do not have a single text that assures you that you are indeed one of the elect. yOU MAY BE DECEIVED!!
_

You wrote
The Bible says God elects, before the foundation of the world, according to the good pleasure of His will
_

Go and find God using the term "elect" for an individual and in the context of salvation from sin, except Jesus Christ, and come back and lets talk some. The term "in Christ" is used 78 times in 77 verses in the NT. Go and find out what God means by the term "in Christ" and come back and lets talk some.

Ro 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Esaus represented the children of the flesh. Nothing good is ever said about the flesh in Scripture. Cursed is the man who trusteth in man and maketh flesh his arm, Jeremiah said. In me, that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing, Paul said. Jacob represented the spiritual man, who was born second. God elects those who are born again!

Rom 9:16 is not a statement on the sovereignty of God.
It is a statement on his purpose.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Why was that important that his name be known in all the earth?

Because God intended to show mercy on the whole earth and he must be known as God through power in the whole earth.

Who would not admit that he did not become known through this act of deleverance when he judged the false gods of the world? We still talk about it today!

I can quote him saying it to me.

Not that I think it will help but the Israel who is blinded, while a remnant of Israel is elected along with gentiles, is said to later be saved when the fullness of the gentiles be come in. This is what proves God has not cast away his people whom he forknew, which are Israelites.

Hint.

Jn 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Men are required to believe to be saved or reject and stay lost. The world in this passage does not mean the gentile believers!

No we are not! Faith is the basis of justification because Christ has paid the redemption price. How could God have made salvation simplier? He could not have made it more simple. Christ died for all men but all men are not justified until they believe God. It is God who is offended by our sin and has condemned us to hell across the board because we are all sinners. Christ is a man but he did not offend God by sinning and so he took the penalty of sinful man and substituted himself and God was satisfied with his payment because he actually died for sins, albeit not his own.

Justification is the act of God. He declares man righteous and without a penalty for sin since the penalty would be or has been answered by someone else. God says there is no excuse for any man because he has made himself known to all men Read Rom 1 and 2 here.

_

Listen friend, you are arguing from a systematic theological point of view that differs with the truth of the word of the Living God. Men have from the very beginning been justified by faith and no other way. They have been responsible to believe the testimony that God has given them and they have been justified on that basis because God in his unfolding plan of redemption had his own son to redeem them by paying the penalty for their sins which is death. This has been the basis of his justifying sinners all through history.
Because Jesus Christ died and because God is merciful, any sinner in hell today could have been justified by believing God. Justification is always by faith and a justified man cannot sin a sin that God will hold against him. The blood of Jesus Christ is the reason for that.

YES!

The bible says Christ died for the sins of the whole world. Do you think Abel is in heaven now for some other reason than that he was redeemed by the blood of Christ who lived 4000 years after he lived? If Cain would have repented and believed God, would he not have been accepted on the same basis? Is there any other basis by which God can redeem sinful men but by the blood of Christ whether it is 4000 years before he actually died on the cross ot 3000 years afterward?

There is a remnant of Israel according to the election of grace. This is present tense and Romans was written id AD 58 which would be some 28 years after the cross and the institution of the New Covenant in the blood of Christ. It would be some 18 years after God made the gentiles partakers of the spiritual benefits of the new covenant, forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Spirit, and it would be an answer to the obvious question of the Jews who were observing this and had no divine inspired revelation and explanation as yet of what happens to the divine unconditional covenants God made specifically with Israel in ralation to what is transpiring in this age, i e the partial blindness of Israel with only a remnant saved and the gentiles reaping the larger part of the benefits.

This is that inspired explanation. None of these things means that God does not plan on keeping his specific covenant promises to Israel but the saving of the gentiles was included in the covenant but the how was not revealed in those covenants.