Casob wrote:
I must ask a question based on this statement before we launch into a discussion on the covenants.
Do you men think it is a freak of nature that Israel gained nationhood in 1948?
A yes or no will do!

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Casob wrote:
Lone Wolf, I have a simple question for you before I answer your question.
Do you hold that gentile Christians are Jews (Spiritual or otherwise) and that Jewish unbelievers are gentiles?

Casob wrote:
Lone Wolf, I have a simple question for you before I answer your question.
Do you hold that gentile Christians are Jews (Spiritual or otherwise) and that Jewish unbelievers are gentiles?

Anyway I truly didn't expect a straightforward answer from you anyhow.

Three passages of scripture for you

1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Isaia 25:8

He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

1 Thess. 4:16-17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Casob wrote:
Casob has some answers for Lone Wolf.

First question:
what is the strongest proof text defending the pretrib rapture. Only one verse please.

First answer:
If you have ever believed any doctrine from the Bible based on one verse, then you have the right to demand I do it. If you can honestly say you have I will believe you and give you a verse.

Casob wrote:
Second question:
Secondly what is the strongest proof text defending the mid trib and post trib position.

Second answer:
Why would you ask me that? There are no passages that support a mid or post trib rapture unless they are taken out of context.

Casob wrote:
Third question:
do you believe that the Old Testament believers will be resurrected and translated at this pretrib rapture?
Third answer:
NO

There will definitely be a resurrection and translation of the saints, living and dead when the Lord returns.

Secondly what is the strongest proof text defending the mid trib and post trib position.

Thirdly Casob, do you believe that the Old Testament believers will be resurrected and translated at this pretrib rapture?

Derek wrote:
I would like to see a question asking "What is your age". I think it would be interesting to see the average age compared to doctrines held, and if there is any correlation.

jay miklovic wrote:
the real problem is 'dead fundamentalism'. people who 'know' the truth and love the truth for truth's sake, and yet their lives make it obvious that the truth they know and love they certainly do not even believe.

Derek wrote:
An infant can not repent!

Preacher wrote:
But if there is one doctrine which is clear and concise, and runs like a golden thread throughout the whole of Scripture, it is the doctrine of the Sovereignty of God and His divine decrees.

Preacher wrote:
Don't know them either. Do not remember seeing any of their posts.
So where is your wilderness, and why are you alone?

Preacher wrote:
Who is Yamil?

Does this not prove God's sovereignty in election to you?

Two groups of people are given.
1. Vessels unto honor
2. Vessels unto dishonor.

1. Vessels of wrath
2. Vessels of mercy

1. The vessels of wrath were fitted for destruction.

The Greek word for "fitted" also means "perfected" Matt. 21:16, Luke 6:40, "prepared" Hebrews 10:5, "framed" Hebrews 11:3, "Make perfect" Hebrews 13:21, 1 Peter 5:10

So the vessels wrath were made perfect and prepared for the day of destruction.

2. The vessels of mercy afore prepared (same Greek word as "before ordained" in Eph. 2:10) unto glory.

The doctrine of election is only one application of the general doctrine of predestination and foreordination.

Does this not prove God's sovereignty to you?

Two groups of people are given.
1. Vessels unto honor
2. Vessels unto dishonor.

1. Vessels of wrath
2. Vessels of mercy

1. The vessels of wrath were fitted for destruction.

The Greek word for "fitted" also means "perfected" Matt. 21:16, Luke 6:40, "prepared" Hebrews 10:5, "framed" Hebrews 11:3, "Make perfect" Hebrews 13:21, 1 Peter 5:10

So the vessels wrath were made perfect and prepared for the day of destruction.

2. The vessels of mercy afore prepared (same Greek word as "before ordained" in Eph. 2:10) unto glory.

The doctrine of election is only one application of the general doctrine of predestination and foreordination.

For God So Loved the World wrote:
I invite you to take the floor, Lone Wolf: What is the single most powerful passage of Scripture that you believe clearly states the truth of unconditional election and how is it that the context proves that it must be so?

Can we also agree on who does the choosing, God or man?

Who are the elect and when were they elected?

Over the weekend I will prayerfully prepare my briefs and will present it from what I can derive from several passages of scripture.

Some to be considered are:

Matt. 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Matt. 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Romans 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

supralap wrote:
I agree Michael.
As a SBC born and bred man, who went to an SBC seminary, and is a pastor in the SBC, I am fed up with Masonic foolery and Warren foolery.
I am glad the SBC is declining. A farmer does not want 10 acres of tares among his 11 plowed. We have 8 million who never show up regularly anyway, yet I promise you they will still cook the books somehow.

DJC49 wrote:
I need a translation of the above.
Thanks in advance.

Just kidding DJC49.

Minnow wrote:
SermonAudio
I don't know why you removed the post below. However you're in charge.
As for Alias "The Lone Wolf" he is clearly playing games.

R. K. Borill wrote:
Without election, there is no salvation, because Jesus died in place of the elect, that the elect might live. The elect were the "travail of his soul" Isa. 53:11
Like faith, repentance is a gift of grace to the elect. Otherwise, none would be saved being left to themselves. But, for Jesus' sake the elect are given faith and repentance. Eph. 2:8-9
The elect are predestined to salvation by the grace of God. If one believes the truth of the Word of God, he does so only because of the grace of God, not for anything in himself. We are altogether unclean and without hope in the world apart from the mercy of God.