I used to play drums in the church I was involved in, and it became clear to me what influence and control we had over the congregation. It even went so far that one occasion the Pastor started giving me the whip it up signal when the song was clearly winding down. I intentionally ended the song as I would not be responsible for false fire not on your sweet ditty.So there is the control factor of contemporary music.Equally problematic is the terrible theology, repetition and selfish orientation of the lyrics. In short I find it hard to see a church using contemporary music to not be preaching a fairy floss gospel and man made psychology and attracting party people.
Peter, I used to believe in reincarnation also and it made me feel very comfortable. But it was a lie.
It may be nice to "know" these things, but it is false knowledge, not according to Scripture. The lazy servant went to Hell, so did the unjust servant. Paul was never "resting comfortably." He was running the race, keeping his eye on the prize lest he become a castaway.
If all you want is to feel good, there's lots of other false doctrines out there that will do the same thing for you. The Scripture says that if you do not put God first in your life and love your neighbor as yourself, you will go to Hell.
Period.
Furthermore, God measures our love by our obedience and gives us the Holy Spirit based upon it.
John 14:21, 23, 24 He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will MANIFEST MYSELF to him. If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE WILL COME UNTO him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings.
I wish you would attend a good OSAS church and learn the peace of God that surpasses understanding. And you will still do good works anyway, you just won't base your salvation on them.
The message I read between the lines of your posts is, "I don't feel saved, I must not be, I must do more good works to please the God so He will like me again.
Hope you don't mind the attempted introspection.
I am really against the teachings of Matt Trewhellas, he cannot make it as a reformist or a Penttecostal i.e. "teaching his congregation to use fire-arms, albeit, correctly--he is activist oriented and not peace oriented, and your weakness is experiencing God's love. I recommend leaving Trew for the True
I did not know you were paying much attention to those issues.
It is very good that you have started to narrow down the issues on how one will properly interpret Scripture.
It is also good that you have not yet seen how good and necessary inference or good and necessary deduction can be used as a basis to properly define and interpret the Scriptures.
This is really how we "know" what the Scriptures teach. The importance to "know" the Scriptures comes from faithful Bible Study day after day. The Lord begins to give you knowledge, wisdom and understanding of His Word.
You wrote: "My problem is with #3. What if we infer wrongly?"
Very important question. This is something that you will need to really work on through faithful study and reading of Scripture. Comparing Scripture with Scripture and using good Sermons and other means to aide your study of the Holy Scripture.
Keep focusing on learning your own presuppositions on the interpretation of Scripture and try to remove some of the old man and bring a new look to His Word.
Calvinists believe their deity (not mine) wrote a script eons ago, and then created beings, yourself included, to fill the roles in his little play; and now we are all acting out our parts under its master control. Calvin's god created some people to for a place called Hell and others for a place called Heaven. The ones who were created for Hell are programmed by Calvin's god to do many wicked and evil deeds, but this is all to work out the story line written for the deity's amusement and "Glory." When the story is all done, all the robots will cheer. The ones in Hell who are weeping and gnashing their teeth will I guess not mind that they are where they are since Calvin's god made them for Hell so they should be satisfied where they are.
The doctrine of irrisistible grace: Means Calvin's god zaps people he chooses into salvation. He doesn't stand at the door and knock waiting for you to open and invite him in. He just comes in and takes over. Once he's in, he never leaves.
All just a bad dream.
Reading your posts, I have learned to capitalize "W" for "God's Word," and capitalize "S" as in Scripture, I believe these random acts of reverence will only lead to more reverence.
My theo dis with you is your words:"In other words, every religious practice or symbol in the worship of God's people must have a divine warrant from God's Word either by:1) command 2)authorized example of the apostles 3) Good and necessary inference"
My problem is with #3. What if we infer wrongly?I noticed you use #3 to support infant baptism. I don't believe such baptism.As you said, " The good and necessary inference of infant baptism has the exact same authority from God as a direct command."
Since I question the "inference" method behind infant baptism, i also question the "inference" method behind the non-instrumental worship theology.
But studying your words in regards to the proper use of instruments, has been instumental in my growth in reverence for God.
sorry for the pun, but Chris m started it, as he said something like, "bringing the discussion 'In Tune' with the thread"
The Puritans desired simple, biblical worship. They regulated their worship by the Bible instead of their own "wills". They had no desire to offer strange fire no matter how "exciting" the strange fire would be to the spectators. They were not interested in putting on a show. When Elijah was on Mt. Carmel in 1 Kings 18, he asked the people if they were ready to follow God or Baal. When posed with the question, the people were silent. When Elijah said he wanted to have a "contest" with the priests (a "show"), what did the people do? They were all excited about it. "Yes! Let’s have a show!" And so they did. The "contemporary church" is the same today. They want a show. They want fire to fall from heaven. They want the spectacular, or at least as entertaining as "church may be". But God is displeased. And if it were not for the grace of God, most "churches" today would be consumed as Nadab and Abihu were.
May the God of worship open the eyes of the blind that they may see. http://www.apuritansmind.com/PuritanWorship/McMahonRegulativePrinciple.htm
The Regulative Principle was given its classical and definitive statement in the reformed Confessions formulated in the 17th century. It is stated in identical language in Chapter 21 paragraph 1 in both the Westminster confession and Chapter 22 paragraph 1 in the 1689 London Baptist confession. The following is taken from the 1689 Baptist Confession:
"The light of Nature shews that there is a God, who hath Lordship, and Sovereignty over all; is just, good, and doth good unto all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the Heart, and all the Soul, (a) and with all the Might. But the acceptable way of Worshipping the true God, is (b) instituted by himself; and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be Worshipped according to the imaginations, and devices of Men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations, or (c) any other way, not prescribed in the Holy Scriptures."
Simply the Regulative Principle States this: True worship is only commanded by God; false worship is anything not commanded. This was the Puritan’s view of worship.
No, I do not know Greekfont and he was not one of the emails. There is no hugh fan club so please don't spin the issue into something I did not say.
My point is that others have let me know they are tired of the discussion between both of us and it is time to end it. Your name has been brought up to suggest that your comments are ruining the site and I'm sure that mine are too so I suggest we end it now.
Are you and he pen-pals, Walt?
One thing I've learned from being in the Baptist church for 30 years -- Baptist men can be really mean, but Calvinist men are even meaner.
Cheryl
Further, the most faithful ministers in Church history have agreed that the Psalter was the basis for NT worship on the Lord's Day Sabbath and it was only the heretical who attempted to bring in other forms of worship and uninspired song into the early church.
The research on this issue is overwhelming and the quotes you gave below were overturned by my research from others who looked more closely than those you quoted below.
Maybe you did not read them.
I think we just cross-posted. We must have been writing at the exact same time on the same subject.
Answers to your questions:
1) no, I don't personally, but it is not forbidden. I used to play musical instruments in Catholic school and did enjoy it, but never continued my musical instrumental practice in High School and beyond. However, I love instruments.
2) Sure. "VI. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless, ***we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word: and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God,*** and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed." (Chapter I, Of the Holy Scripture, WCF).
You wrote: "Our salvation is through Christ to God, and our service is through the Holy Spririt to God. That which is not commanded in the Word of God, is transfered to the Holy Ghost. This is why the Regulative Principle is not applicable to those who are born-again. John 14:26 says, "But the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, shall teach you all things, and bring all things to remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
I'm still not following you on your justification of Instruments being used in the Sabbath worship of God.
You gave me some scripture references (2Sa6:5, Psa.68:25, Ex.15:20-21, Psa.98:4-5) below to justify your view that instruments were used in worship.
I agree, but I need to know what verses you have that show the Priest were given permission to bring in any form of worship not specifically instituted by God Himself into the Sabbath worship or worship on God ordained Holy Days.
Again, so you are not confused, I have no problem with using instruments at home, or in private worship, or in family worship, but I have a problem using them in the Lord's Day Sabbath Worship.
1) Do you use musical instruments ouside of your Church for your own "private" worship? 2) If so, are you even allowed to since it was not commanded in Scripture? Please explain.3) How can you use the Psalms exclusively in the Church, if the Bible says "psalms and hymns and spiritual songs"? (Col 3:16)
The comments below are a witness testimony that there are some issues you are struggling with that do not have anything to do with "Should Christian Contemporary Music be used in fundamental churches?"
Again, I think that you need to take a break from this site and get some counseling.
The comments below are only going to hurt many people who come to this site for the first time, look at the topic question, and read your words.
The emails I've received demonstrate that it is time to please stop. Please.
Hey, if you're a Christian and life gets too miserable, why not just end it all? Yes? All our sins are forgiven -- past, present and future, so it's okay to die in an unrepentent state, committing self-murder. Yes?
Charles Stanley says in his Eternal Security book:
"When He died on the cross, He took care of all of our sin. You say, 'You mean to tell me that if a person takes their own life, after all these things that you just talked about, all these things of sins that that person's forgiven?' Forgiven .... that person is going to lose reward."[21]
"A believer who commits suicide is already forgiven. Now I didn't say it was gonna be good for him, I said they're forgiven. They are pardoned of that sin."[22]
This doctrine is no doubt causing more deaths by suicide than the JW's ever did with their prohibition against blood transfusions.
I don't think Jesus came to earth to encourage sin, hand out free tickets to sin, Don't worry, I'll take care of it, take comfort, don't worry, it's okay, be happy ...
Who is being harsh here? Is that what you call being Christian or kind, kicking someone when they are down?
I think those postings should not have been taken down. I said nothing wrong or unscriptural at all in all my postings. In fact, if my postings were all garbled and deceitful, they would have been left up. But I spoke plainly and convincingly. That's why they were taken down.
I am only refuting antinomianism. Our salvation is secure if we are in a repentant state of submission, abiding in Jesus. That message is plain throughout the scriptures. There is no receiving Jesus as Savior to be saved. It's receiving him as LORD.
If you confess with your mouth the LORD JESUS, you will be saved. If he is Lord, then that means we don't have a free ticket to Heaven.
If we're not allowed to discuss such topics here, then what good are these threads anyway? If all it's for is to post Institutes, then why not just put them all up and save the trouble of having a discussion board?
For my part I stick to psalms, hymns and spiritual songs - sung, no instruments I think is the NT early church model. But each to his own; if you want a piano that's your matter. If you need a full orchestra I think perhaps the music may mean more to you than the meaning of the words. If you need rock music and lighting effects then you are quite likely of the world and an enemy of God. One to whom he will say "I never knew you"....
