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Breaking News All | The Vault | United Prayer | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  12/8/2022
THURSDAY, DEC 21, 2017  |  25 comments
Indiana church deploys armed security team during services
A church in Indiana announced they have deployed an armed team of security guards to stand watch during services following last month’s mass shooting at a Texas church.

Scott Kern, the director of ministries at Park Chapel Christian Church in Greenfield, Ind., said the security team would be made up of 10 local officers who were also members of the church, FOX59 reported.

Kern said the officers would be dressed in casual clothing but have weapons on them during services. Another 10 people would be guarding the church’s entrances and doors but would not be armed. ...


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News Item12/25/17 9:38 AM
Dr. Tim | Southern U.S.  Find all comments by Dr. Tim
I just read that an 11-year-old girl smashed a pickup into a house in Kentucky because she wanted to kill people. (This happened in November, but I just now learned of it.) Parents, please don't give your 11-year-olds anything larger than a Harley-Davidson.
25

News Item12/25/17 5:39 AM
Dr. Tim | Southern U.S.  Find all comments by Dr. Tim
You're right, J4J. On a typical Sunday morning, there may be a hundred children at our church, from newborns to high schoolers. If you think I'm going to run out and hug some demon-possessed monster who is trying to harm them, think again. I'd much rather see his brains and guts on the ground than theirs.
24

News Item12/23/17 7:12 PM
John for JESUS | Atl  Find all comments by John for JESUS
I think churches should have safeguards in place to protect people. If you love them, or even like them, you should be willing to protect them also. Think of the lives the guy saved at the last church shooting by having a gun handy. I wouldn't have any regrets, other than the shooter had to die
23

News Item12/22/17 10:10 AM
Dr. Tim | Southern U.S.  Find all comments by Dr. Tim
If you see something, don't just say something. Shoot someone. Git 'er done!
22

News Item12/22/17 8:24 AM
Just a guy | Mississippi  Find all comments by Just a guy
Buckeyes said...
"Also, if you look at the data, mass shooters generaly choose “soft” targets such as gun-free zones where they can inflict the most carnage with the least resistance."

Exactly. Very good point.

21

News Item12/22/17 7:56 AM
Buckeyes | USA  Find all comments by Buckeyes
(TMC) @Jon
“Don't get me wrong, if some lunatic were to break into my home with robbery or murder on his mind, he would be met with my 12 gauge. But when on trial, or attacked specifically for my faith, then non resistance is in order.”

So how on earth do you tell if the gun-wielding psycho is shooting up the church because it’s an easy target and he wants fame as a mass murderer or because he hates Christians? How is the fact you’ve already planned out what you would do if your home was invaded different from a church planning what they will do?

Also, if you look at the data, mass shooters generaly choose “soft” targets such as gun-free zones where they can inflict the most carnage with the least resistance. That’s why you don’t hear about mass shootings at sporting goods stores or gun ranges. So announcing that you have security is actually a good way to never have to utilize that security!

As others have pointed out, Jesus commanded the Disciples (The Church) to buy swords- tools that are only useful for combat. You really can’t use them for hunting or chopping wood!

20

News Item12/22/17 6:14 AM
Ignominious Emirakan | Espada espalda  Find all comments by Ignominious Emirakan
Jon wrote:
to the church. .. so learn Christ that way.
"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
Provide protection. 1 Tim 5:8

"And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords.
And
he said
unto them,
It is enough."Lk22:38

--
2/12 = .16% armed
--
Environmental assaults of cold, rain, & savages call for provision from those shepherding a flock.

Christ told the church that a proportion of about 1 sword in six is enough

So u may rely of brethren to protect u.

19

News Item12/21/17 9:50 PM
Jon | Pennsylvania  Find all comments by Jon
Thanks for the encouragement Rodney K. Much appreciated!
18

News Item12/21/17 9:01 PM
Rodney K. | Tennessee  Contact via emailFind all comments by Rodney K.
Jon wrote:
...the "wayfaring , pilgrim church" will become the norm again...
Bro. WP,

I saw you posting on another thread. I thought you might be happy to hear this.

17

News Item12/21/17 8:04 PM
Jon | Pennsylvania  Find all comments by Jon
The sword is given to governing authorities, not to the church. Paul made that clear. We are to submit to the authorities in so far as they do not compel us to violate Gods law or deny Christ. If they attempt implementation of the above then we resist peaceably as the Jesus and the Apostles showed in their example. Don't get me wrong, if some lunatic were to break into my home with robbery or murder on his mind, he would be met with my 12 gauge. But when on trial, or attacked specifically for my faith, then non resistance is in order. When incidents such as the recent church shooting in Texas occur, the immediate circumstances dictate the response. However to PLAN for armed resistance, in my view is not the response that Christ would have us take. In my view it would be wiser to make our gatherings less of a target, and to not invite violence. Lunatics out there knowing we are armed just might take that as a challenge, as we were saying "bring it on!" No, I did not so learn Christ that way.
16

News Item12/21/17 7:24 PM
Ignominious Emirakan | Rey David espada Goliat  Find all comments by Ignominious Emirakan
Pastor Hoggard recently noted responsibility to protect his grandkids, kids & wife. "Turn the other cheek" is NOT "attack innocents under my care with impunity"

"Consider war. All Christians are called to be “pacifists” in the sense that we are to love peace and pursue it. The use of the sword as a restraining device, though legitimate, is a means of last resort.

In Christian history three theories of war have been advocated. The first is the position of pure pacifism, which states that no Christian may ever take up arms. The second is the position summed up in the phrase, “My country, right or wrong.” This position says that the Christian citizen has a duty to fight in whatever kind of war the government decides to prosecute.

Between these two extremes lies the “just war” position. The just war position has been advocated throughout history by the vast majority of Christian ethicists in all branches of the church. Based on the Bible, the just war position states that some wars are justified-

What determines the difference? Basically it is this: A just war is a defensive war. "

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/war-and-christian/

Guns as defensive tools?
Loving care for the weak.
walls of the thicketed sheep fold.

-
David took Goliath's sword.

15

News Item12/21/17 6:12 PM
Nete | MD  Find all comments by Nete
I suppose this is what one does when afraid of death and does not really understand what Christ has accomplished.
I don't know what I would do either at the time of confrontation that would possibly end my life. I say I am not afraid to die knowing I have no schedule of my own. I think I believe the following scriptures:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that hears my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life (Jhn 5:24).
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me (Gal 2:20).
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death (1Jo 3:14a).
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage (Heb 2:14, 15).

But to go to Gethsemane with guns is ludicrous.

14

News Item12/21/17 5:54 PM
Jon | Pennsylvania  Find all comments by Jon
Let me clarify my use of the term pilgrim. I wasn't referring to the Plymouth pilgrims of Mayflower fame, but to the generic meaning of the term: "a traveler, a wanderer, especially to a sacred place as an act of devotion". By this definition I refer to the suffering, wayfaring church throughout the ages. Make no mistake, that has been the experience for most believers throughout history. Our culture of freedom from persecution is a historical anomaly. Furthermore this suffering church was known for it's peaceable demeanor, and non-resistance except for a few exceptional cases where they may have been pushed to the limit. But even this resulted in controversy in determining if that response was right. No, I firmly believe that our anomalous era is coming to an end, and the "wayfaring , pilgrim church" will become the norm again. "Fear not, little flock, it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."
13

News Item12/21/17 5:28 PM
Ignominious Emirakan | ten dudes a good start  Find all comments by Ignominious Emirakan
Jon wrote:
..pilgrim church history ..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_Going_to_Church
Holding guns
Pilgrims Going To Church (1867) — originally The Early Puritans of New England Going to Church — is a celebrated and much reproduced painting by Anglo-American painter George Henry Boughton (1833–1905)
winter scene depicts the 17th-century Puritan settlers of New England (later identified specifically as the Pilgrim Fathers) as a small armed group of somberly clad, God-fearing souls making their way from right to left through a snowy, recently cleared wood to a house of worship (a small building visible in the left background). A minister and his wife lead about a half dozen women and children towards the church and are themselves led and flanked by grim looking men with muskets. "
🖼🎨history paints variegated vignettes
¿Savages vs family?
"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
Provide protection. 1 Tim 5:8
"And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough."Lk22:38
--
Environmental assaults of cold, rain, & savages call for provision from those shepherding a flock.
-
"Ten men" Judg 6:27-
12

News Item12/21/17 5:00 PM
Jon | Pennsylvania  Find all comments by Jon
Well, I call it as I see it, and I see it as nuts. It violates the spirit of the sermon on the mount, which throughout most of the suffering pilgrim church history was THE standard of conduct for Christians. The way I see it is that the era of the we "do church" is coming to an end, and God is calling His remnant out of what has become Laodicea, and preparing His people for the sufferings to come. The traditional Church mode is going by the wayside, and something different is coming about. You can't put new wine into old wine skins. That's my view and I'm sticking to it.😇
11

News Item12/21/17 3:25 PM
Lawrence Fine | Elysium Fields  Find all comments by Lawrence Fine
This is not nuts--it's just like locking the gates to parking lots and doors of the church buildings before everyone leaves for the night. Gone are the days when you may have seen a church open all night for prayers and hurting people to come to.
And I think you will see more of this already in effect, not due to the Texas case only, but the other one a year or so ago, where an off-duty security guard happened to be in the church.
A friend told me of a TV show where a woman living in Alaska was given target practice with a handgun--the target being a grizzly bear. I'm not sure how much good a hand gun would do, but she turned out to be a very good shot; not sure how it will work out when the bear is heading her way. Would that upset people who are anti-gun or anti-violence? I guess so, but they only guarantee bears will always have humans to feed on.
10

News Item12/21/17 3:05 PM
Jon | Pennsylvania  Find all comments by Jon
This is nuts! Just giving the authorities an excuse to raid churches when persecution becomes the law of the land. I suspect that Pastors and leaders are reluctant to scatter their flocks into smaller less visible groups because they don't want to give up control of their little empires, and allow the Holy Spirit to appoint and teach other Pastors and leaders for small groups. This one man showmanship has to stop! Carrying guns like this will only cause the world to say "see I told you so! They're just a bunch of radical right wing terrorists!" This is NOT the spirit of the true gospel.
9

News Item12/21/17 2:59 PM
Adriel  Find all comments by Adriel
""the officers would be dressed in casual clothing but have weapons on them during services. Another 10 people would be guarding the church’s entrances and doors""

Yes!! Of course if you cannot trust in God you can always mount a security guard.

Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."

Psalm 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. 2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. 3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence."

8

News Item12/21/17 1:29 PM
Rodney K. | Tennessee  Contact via emailFind all comments by Rodney K.
John UK wrote:
Maybe the date of our decease isn't ordered by the Lord, after all.

We'd all sure like to think that wouldn't we?

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth.... hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
(Acts 17:24, 26)

Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.... his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;
(Job 14:1, 5)

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
(Hebrews 9:27)

7

News Item12/21/17 11:57 AM
John Yurich USA | USA  Find all comments by John Yurich USA
Good.
6
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