Atheist Metalcore Band Claims to Be Christian to Sell Music to Faithful
Tim Lambesis, lead singer and founder of Christian metalcore band As I Lay Dying, recently confessed that he and other members of his band had become atheists but kept claiming to be Christians so they could keep making money selling records to Christians.
In a wide-ranging interview with Alternative Press shortly before he was sentenced to six years in prison last month for attempting to hire a hitman to murder his estranged wife, Meggan Murphy Lambesis, the singer addressed a claim he made last year in a YouTube video about his spiritual allegiance after fans started saying he had become a Satanist.
"A month before your arrest, you posted a YouTube video addressing fans who felt your new side project, Pyrithion, was 'satanic.' I remember watching the video at the time and noticing you never gave the easy answer: 'Of course not. I'm a Christian!' You knew people thought of you as a Christian....
Mike wrote: I could take some issue with that, but instead- The song is about what is it we place our trust in, the solid Rock, which is Christ, or anything else, which is sinking sand. Lest we be speaking past one another here is the refrain: "On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand; All other ground is sinking sand, All other ground is sinking sand." Are either of these statements false doctrine? Do they contradict Scripture in any way?
Hi Mike, As I said, the refrain in terms of theology regarding salvation is true and most wonderful. As is the rest of the hymn.
The problem is that it is based upon Matthew 7 which shows that the building of our life (our house) will only stand firm and not come crashing down around us, if we build upon a solid foundation.
Those that heard the words of Jesus, Matthew 5-7 and did what He said to do, were building on a solid rock. These would be the solid-rock Christians who never faltered nor fell.
Those that heard the words of Jesus, Matthew 5-7 and elsewhere, all His words, and did not do what He said to do, were trying to build on sinking sand. These were the sinking sand Christians who were always falling over and making no headway in their Christian life, always at the mercy of adversity.
John UK wrote: --- Now if you think about it, we rightly joy in being justified through faith. The refrain is correct in that. But where it went wrong was in getting Matt 7 wrong. That is all about works, obeying Christ. Obey Christ = rock Disobey
I could take some issue with that, but instead-
The song is about what is it we place our trust in, the solid Rock, which is Christ, or anything else, which is sinking sand. Lest we be speaking past one another here is the refrain:
"On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand; All other ground is sinking sand, All other ground is sinking sand."
Are either of these statements false doctrine? Do they contradict Scripture in any way?
Matthew 7:21-27 KJV (21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (24) Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: (25) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. (26) And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: (27) And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Now if you think about it, we rightly joy in being justified through faith. The refrain is correct in that. But where it went wrong was in getting Matt 7 wrong. That is all about works, obeying Christ.
John UK wrote: Brother Mike, It is a shame you came up with a hymn which misinterprets scripture in the refrain. Many hymns of men do that, which is why different denominations use different hymnbooks, to suit their theology. This is why singing the word of God is so unifying. The Jews only sang the Psalms. Sure, you can misinterpret the Psalms, but at least the Psalms are correct, whereas many hymns are rank heresy. Just sayin' bro.
You'll have to explain, bro. I see no misinterpretation.
The refrain: "On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand; All other ground is sinking sand, All other ground is sinking sand."
Psalm 40:2 "He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my going."
What is the rock David is talking about? If his feet are set upon this rock, he must be standing upon it, methinks. All other ground is sinking sand, no?
Matthew 7:26 "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand"
Psalm 62:6 "He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved."
Why will he not be moved? Because his feet are on the solid Rock.
"My hope is built on nothing less Than Jesus' blood and righteousness; I dare not trust the sweetest frame, But wholly lean on Jesus' name.
Refrain: On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand; All other ground is sinking sand, All other ground is sinking sand.
When darkness veils His lovely face, I rest on His unchanging grace; In ev'ry high and stormy gale, My anchor holds within the veil.
His oath, His covenant, His blood, Support me in the 'whelming flood; When all around my soul gives way, He then is all my hope and stay."
Brother Mike,
It is a shame you came up with a hymn which misinterprets scripture in the refrain. Many hymns of men do that, which is why different denominations use different hymnbooks, to suit their theology.
This is why singing the word of God is so unifying. The Jews only sang the Psalms.
Sure, you can misinterpret the Psalms, but at least the Psalms are correct, whereas many hymns are rank heresy.
The original always trumps the copy. The copy and that which is derived from the original may have some value but can never be as "instrumental" as the original. I'm using this as an analogy between Scripture and hymns.
John UK wrote: --- The problem with hymns is that, like CCM, they are very appealing to the emotions, and have a temporary effect which lasts but for a moment; they can produce tears, joyful outbursts, goosebumps even. But they rarely touch the affections. This is because they are all inspirations of man. ---
You mean like this, John?:
"My hope is built on nothing less Than Jesus' blood and righteousness; I dare not trust the sweetest frame, But wholly lean on Jesus' name.
Refrain: On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand; All other ground is sinking sand, All other ground is sinking sand.
When darkness veils His lovely face, I rest on His unchanging grace; In ev'ry high and stormy gale, My anchor holds within the veil.
His oath, His covenant, His blood, Support me in the 'whelming flood; When all around my soul gives way, He then is all my hope and stay."
Christopher000 wrote: Hi Connor, I like a pretty wide variety. I like Acapella, Michael W Smith, Celtic hymns, love Michelle Tumes, especially her first album, and others. I also like choirs a lot, like National Christian, and Brooklyn Tabernacle, etc.
Hey Christopher,
The problem with hymns is that, like CCM, they are very appealing to the emotions, and have a temporary effect which lasts but for a moment; they can produce tears, joyful outbursts, goosebumps even. But they rarely touch the affections. This is because they are all inspirations of man.
Psalms on the other hand, which all the Jews in the OT and in the early church used to sing in worship, were and still are, the very words of God, inspired by the Spirit of God; thusly, they not only instruct about God and fill us with His word, but they also move the affections.
There is a world of difference between emotions and affections.
Hi Connor, I like a pretty wide variety. I like Acapella, Michael W Smith, Celtic hymns, love Michelle Tumes, especially her first album, and others. I also like choirs a lot, like National Christian, and Brooklyn Tabernacle, etc.
Mike Wrote: "Me too, Christopher. But when old school hymns were new, there were those who said they were of the devil, and that God would not approve. Pry around here, and you will find some who agree with them."
Yeah, I remember the threads. Some even saying singing anything other than the Psalms was basically sin. I completely disagree and feel that if the words glorify God, or give thanks, or whatever, and are biblically sound, then sing away. Sing it loud and proud. : )
Christopher000 wrote: I used to listen to Stryper and Petra, etc, thinking they were alternatives to the heavy metal I grew up on. I came to realize that aside from the words and themes of the songs, it all really appealed to the flesh in the same way and now I view it as an excuse to listen to head banging metal that I highly doubt Christ would have approved of and doubt He would be banging His head at one of their concerts. Now, I like the simpler, old school praise and worship songs.
Me too, Christopher. But when old school hymns were new, there were those who said they were of the devil, and that God would not approve. Pry around here, and you will find some who agree with them.
I used to listen to Stryper and Petra, etc, thinking they were alternatives to the heavy metal I grew up on. I came to realize that aside from the words and themes of the songs, it all really appealed to the flesh in the same way and now I view it as an excuse to listen to head banging metal that I highly doubt Christ would have approved of and doubt He would be banging His head at one of their concerts. Now, I like the simpler, old school praise and worship songs.
Dear Lee from Southern US, CCM is Contemporary Christian Music. It started originally, partly in the black churches with their lively gospel music, partly in the Pentecostal Churches founded after the Azusa Street "revival" of 1906, but also the very lively syncopated singing groups, accompanied by a song leader and a very lively chord piano accompaniment used in some "revival" meetings.
However, in its modern form it dates back to the 1960's, when many hippies brought their rock music with them into the "Jesus Movement", when they were converted.
Many Charismatic fellowships adopted this wholesale, and later on as the Seeker Sensitive Movement took hold in many churches, the old hymns, psalms, traditional choirs, organ, piano, and even hymn books were thrown out and replaced by loud worship bands, pop style solo singers, "lite" choruses, with overhead projectors.
The more conservative churches were offered the blended worship as I said before.
Together with CCM has come a decline in preaching, Bible study, prayer and standards of presentation, dress, holiness and solid discipleship.
FG wrote: CCM philosophy. ... connecting traditional worship to contemporary worship. Singing these out, in my tender conscience, means tacet approval of their more contemporary sound and thereby having a hand in promoting it. I know that's not good enough for the cool academic types that now saturate conservative churches (reformed, fundamental, etc.), but these are my convictions. And Christian liberty not only means liberty on a broad scale, but it also means libery to be narrow.
Thank you and Chris G P|England for your inputs respectively regarding CCM, Contemporary Christian Music. The modern hymn, as On Christ Alone for instance, with its sound lyrics, was designed to appeal or bridge the gap between ecumenical, charismatic, liberal and conservative settings, while overlooking the message the music per se conveys.
When analysing a style of music, it helps to assess the authors life-styles, involvements/settings and preferences, because any music carries the flavour or ethos of the setting in which it has been originally conceived. Getty, or Townend's creations are grounded in the sensuality of pop styles, rich in self-centered good-feeling factor elements as the driving force. Pure music styles bypass such.
What! no one mentioned Amy Grant [URL=http://tinyurl.com/hcdm9tl]]]http://tinyurl.com/hcdm9tl (Wolves in Costume: Amy L. Grant)[/URL]. This seems like a reasonably good article about her.
Everyone has great points here. Chris G P, you are so right about how they creep it in. As a kid I thought all this "music is ruining our kids" stuff was nonsense. I would hear people say how Elvis's gyrations caused this and that. I was in my teens in the later part of the metal era and played guitar so once I had shaken off my church upbringing, I jumped into music because they had the best writers and coolest musicians.
It wasnt until 23 years later when I was drawn back to God that I finally got it. Rock music was all about REBELLION. That's its main purpose. Satan used a middle class looking piggy faced Bill Haley to open the door because he didnt appear as a threat. Once the door was open just a fraction soon a ton of people were stampeding through and a decade later you had the Beatles introducing the New Age to America. And on and on its gone.
A close look at CCM reveals the same trend. What one generation tolerates, the next generation embraces.
Wayfarer Pilgrim wrote: FG do tell what is your conscience issue?
1) Knowing the attitudes that exist there. For example Stuart Townend stated that if Jesus were on earth today he would be listening to "Christian rap" or "Christian heavy metal", which is typicalCCM philosophy. 2) These could be a vestibule connecting traditional worship to contemporary worship. Singing these out, in my tender conscience, means tacet approval of their more contemporary sound and thereby having a hand in promoting it. I know that's not good enough for the cool academic types that now saturate conservative churches (reformed, fundamental, etc.), but these are my convictions. And Christian liberty not only means liberty on a broad scale, but it also means liberyt to be narrow.
It is true that some CCM writers and artists are beginning to write "hymn" like compositions with thoughtful slow tunes, a slow beat, and solid seeming lyrics, often set to a piano, acoustic guitar, or with flutes and classical sounding instruments, but the whole idea of this milieu is deceptive.
It is to gently introduce CCM to very solid conservative and even Reformed type churches, who obviously would not accept the hard rock immediately, or a heavy syncopated beat, or doctrine lite lyrics.
However, the people begin to get used to their "supplementary" hymn book, and it is used regularly at evening or evangelistic services, and also the younger folk, and even more senior members watch You Tube and other internet videos or audios of these artists with their heavier and "rockier" numbers.
In these churches, after some years, and perhaps under a new pastor, the full blown CCM and worship band can soon develop.
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[URL=http://tinyurl.com/hcdm9tl]]]http://tinyurl.com/hcdm9tl (Wolves in Costume: Amy L. Grant)[/URL]. This seems like a reasonably good article about her.
