Empathy for Noble was voiced by Ed Stetzer, a popular blogger and Wheaton College faculty member who formerly was executive director of LifeWay Research.
Alcohol has been a struggle for various church leaders -- those who are "innovative, contemporary, traditional, and liturgical,‚ÄĚ Stetzer wrote. ‚ÄúThe Bible says that 'wine is a mocker and strong drink a brawler' (Proverbs 20:1). Let's pray and weep because alcohol mocked again, and let's not feel the need to join in that mocking. The world will do that enough."
In a word of hope to any pastor "struggling with alcohol or any other addiction," Stetzer recommended "ministries and resources like Recovering Redemption, Celebrate Recovery, Alcoholics Anonymous, and more."...
Here's the false accusation sc said I made to her comment below I repasted. Kev from San Diego writes: SC you know why the Kings and princes had to not drink? It was because they held other people's lives in their hands not just their own. Kings back in that time would get drunk then make bad decisions and get people executed. Look at John the Baptist. Your reasoning is so silly. You don't know what you are talking about and don't care to know. This is why I'm being frank with you. 5 hours ago Kev from San Diego writes: Also SC if you want to use Leviticus then use all of Leviticus's laws to the priests. Sorry that verse is just being used plain wrong to be applied to all. You use the easiest verse to answer your question not one laid out in the Levitical laws
Sc wrote: One would think that,Jack,except those who have a liking for the stuff. If one would look at the word "wine" in the Bible they can easily see that it is bad or it is good. Since something cannot be both bad and good,context helps. A fair question,Dano Context helps as does not reading more into Scripture. We do see that alcoholic wine was not prohibited for medicinal purposes...so,Leviticus 10:9-11 9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: 10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; ..would take into account that even if a priest could have used it medicinally,that he absolutely was not to in the tabernacle. And,if alcoholic wine was a good thing in the Bible,then Proverbs 31:4 4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: DISCOUNTS THAT. It would make sense and be consistent,however,if "wine" is a generic term in the Bible and not always "alcohol".
If the anti-wine folks are right, the wine used at the last supper must have been grape juice. But that was in the Spring. Maybe it was imported from someplace where the grapes were recently harvested.
Once again, you have taken it upon yourself to falsely accuse. Here is your false accusation concerning me - "If you read my post,Kev,I was demonstrating the foolish argument that alcoholic "wine" is a good thing laid out by Ladybug" Now, where did I say wine is a 'good thing'? What is being argued here is that wine is not forbidden, drunkenness is. I will warn you to stop with your accusations and I await your apology.
Unprofitable Servant wrote: I hope you realize that less than a handful of any who are involved in this discussion actually drink any alcoholic beverages. We just don't unjustly condemn those who drink in moderation or try to twist the Scriptures to fit our viewpoint. No one is condoning drunkenness and all the evils associated with it. We agree with the church that removed the pastor from his position for not repenting of his sin. We just hope by the grace of God to rightly divide the Word of Truth and to uphold our brothers and sisters in Christ who are being maligned through faulty logic and sanctimonious opinions which do not line up with the teachings of the Bible. What you are seeing is a love for the Scripture and a love for our brethren, not a defense of abusing alcohol.
Christ Our Hope wrote: And yet after all is said and done, (and argued), it still remains true that (if)... "Alcohol abuse has caused caused untold misery, disease, sorrow and death in our cultures, why do people continue to flirt with such a trouble maker, especially when there are so many safe alternative beverages available nowadays?"
I hope you realize that less than a handful of any who are involved in this discussion actually drink any alcoholic beverages. We just don't unjustly condemn those who drink in moderation or try to twist the Scriptures to fit our viewpoint. No one is condoning drunkenness and all the evils associated with it. We agree with the church that removed the pastor from his position for not repenting of his sin. We just hope by the grace of God to rightly divide the Word of Truth and to uphold our brothers and sisters in Christ who are being maligned through faulty logic and sanctimonious opinions which do not line up with the teachings of the Bible. What you are seeing is a love for the Scripture and a love for our brethren, not a defense of abusing alcohol.
this is the perfect debate for Baptists. it won't offend anyone outside of Baptists, therefore they can keep their 501c3 status, keep each other upset without dealing with real and scary issues like their own convention supporting mosques while Nice, France is bulldozed.
And yet after all is said and done, (and argued), it still remains true that (if)... "Alcohol abuse has caused caused untold misery, disease, sorrow and death in our cultures, why do people continue to flirt with such a trouble maker, especially when there are so many safe alternative beverages available nowadays?"
Most correct John, the best resources available. Shame they happened to go to news section first, wanting to get real news, as the site seems to beat mainstream news by a couple of day's here. Myself at the top of the list for debate=argument, for this I'm sorry. Still the fact remains that I've given a perspective of an outsider, and we look bad, sorry. That not an opinion of mine, just half a dozen Christians that ventured to the news thread. I'm the worst, I've publicly scolded people for saying what I am. The site is great, the state of the so called body of believers, is nothing short of ecumenical.it's one thing to debate, it's another to argue over the obvious, what's the point in discussions on scripture, when it means whatever people wish it to mean to them, then that's what it means? My neighbor laughed one-day, I was posting while he was talking to webby, I asked him why, he said he had been using site for news and like he said who's right, you all have your thoughts, but what does the bible say, I showed him, shook his head and he laughed again, couldn't see the problem, as the bible answered it,but that thread went onto over 500 comments, with so many interpretations. Threads irrelevant, how we project ourselves is relevant
Well Dave, things can get ugly around here sometimes, but for the most part I've very blessed here in comment section the last three years. Not too long after I started posting here, It was way worse than you see now because there was a silly woman hounding everyone in almost every thread about loosing your salvation. She was so incorrigible I almost quit posting here, but I stuck it out and she's gone thankfully. I about left over Geff and his shenanigans, but he finally came clean. The one good thing the trouble makers is that they pave the way for interesting theological discussions, and our knowledge gets tried and tested, causing us to study a little more.
The SermonAudio website has over a million good sermons, and is a resource not to be neglected. It must be the best on the net.
However the forums are a sort of anger management sanctification section, designed to help those with an anger problem, and also to show some of us that we have an anger problem but never realised it until we were confronted with religious idiots posting spiritually nonsensical posts ad infinitum.
Oh, but don't forget that our beloved brother Christopher received great spiritual change after he first came on the board and was welcomed by several here who tried to help him in his spiritual journey.
And I'm sure there are plenty of others who have been mightily blessed, even in this unusual environment, as we have studied scripture together, gaining a better understanding through convos and discussion about various issues.
Of course, there will always be those who think they know it all, and have no heart to help others along the way, patiently showing with great longsuffering the inconsistency of the beliefs of some folks. But "love one another" still stands as the ensign of Jesus People.