Andy Stanley: If You Don’t Go To A Big Church, You’re Selfish
In a sermon on February 28, 2016, Andy Stanley told his congregation “if you don’t go to a large church, you are so stinking selfish…and don’t care about your kids.”
Nevermind if the church is doctrinally sound, nevermind if your kids hear the Gospel preached from the pulpit. They need to go to a large church so “they can make friends,” and “go off to college and make friends.” From his tirade against people who prefer smaller, more intimate congregations, it appears that he believes the primary function of the church is friend-making....
I disagree with Stanley. My Baptist Church is a small Baptist Church that has between 80 and 100 registered members and it is doctrinally sound and the children hear the Gospel during children's Sunday School held downstairs during morning worship on Sunday mornings. And there is also AWANA on Wednesday nights for the children to learn Bible verses.
Andy Stanley tries to explain his foolish remarks, [URL=http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/march-web-only/megachurch-pastor-andy-stanley-explains-controversial-remar.html?start=3]]] Andy Stanley Explains His ‘Stinking Selfish’ Parents Comment [/URL]
Maybe he did?
Changes in a church for teenagers? I would suggest that parents should check with their teenagers to see if they want those changes themselves?
So again, Barney you had a good idea, and I found the article when I was doing a Google search. Perhaps one should also ask can a church be too large? More than 32,000 attendees on 6 campuses? Sounds like an entertainment complex to me.
Being liked by the Willow Creek Assn. is not a good recommendation for him either!
Barney, you made some good comments. I would say that sometimes the excuse of a church using the introduction of contemporary music was a cause of drop in membership, when a set of good earplugs could cure that for the offended laity. This excuse could be just a cover for something of a more serious nature. For example seems that adulterers have a fondness for contemporary music, e.g., Tullian Tchividjian had a fondness for contemporary music. See the thread on him here, on SA.
But worship services can jangle the nerves of some people, there are good reasons for leaving a church, q.v., the John MacArthur articles. Again, [URL=http://www.gty.org/resources/print/questions/QA120]]]http://tinyurl.com/hclzev4 (When Should People Leave Their Church?)[/URL] and [URL=http://www.gty.org/resources/print/questions/QA121]]]http://tinyurl.com/gwx3fya (What should I look for when choosing a new church home?)[/URL]. Sometimes mishandling of immorality of a staff member is a good reason to leave a church.
You may find it helpful to do a web news search for his name; an article from the Christianity Today website furthers the discussion, where he apologizes and tells more. It also contains more of the original message context, which also reminds me of many cases. Yes, it does seem selfish for the parents to attend a church where their teen children are not being 'fed' but then, is the church the only place for that, or shouldn't that be the parents responsibility in the true biblical sense. It is sad to see how churches of any size segregate people by age, sex, gender, so, for example, the elderly are deprived of having relationships with anyone who is not elderly. Some doubt the whole idea of church-the place on the corner that meets on Sunday mornings at 11:00am and Wednesday nights at 8:00pm. They have become the 'nones' that people like George Barna like to promote the existence of. I believe few people in those buildings really could tell the distinctives of what they believe, besides the obvious traits like method of baptism. A sociologist could simply interview people leaving those buildings on Sunday mornings and find that out. I knew people who left one church to attend another because the 'traditional' service was changed; the denominational distinctives did not matter
Jim McDougal wrote: What an idiot. Christ is the reason not friendship.
Unfortunately there are many reasons people choose a church, for example business contacts. Friendship might be another, if a church is correct in all other ways there's no reason not to choose it for great programs for kids from K-12 or even college level. You might even choose on for a style for preaching such as, expositional, I go to a small church that practices that, The Word of God is powerful, q.v., [URL=http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/SC05-1013.htm]]]Programs, Get Your Programs: Exposing the Flaws of a Fad-Driven Church[/URL] by Phil Johnson. But anyway, John MacArthur's articles, [URL=http://www.gty.org/resources/print/questions/QA120]]]http://tinyurl.com/hclzev4 (When Should People Leave Their Church?)[/URL] and [URL=http://www.gty.org/resources/print/questions/QA121]]]http://tinyurl.com/gwx3fya (What should I look for when choosing a new church home?)[/URL] I would suggest that some here, like our Catholic participants view them.
Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God's Plan of Salvation wrote: We deny that this atonement results in salvation without a person's free response of repentance and faith.
excerpt from, [URL=http://tinyurl.com/hay3b5u]]] http://tinyurl.com/hay3b5u. ("A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God's Plan of Salvation") [/URL]
This means, John, that you repent from your attendance of the Romish Church and quit it immediately. here is good advice for looking for a new church home [URL=http://www.gty.org/resources/questions/QA121/what-should-i-look-for-when-choosing-a-new-church-home]]] http://tinyurl.com/jhy3rtd ( What should I look for when choosing a new church home? )[/URL] .
Andy Stanley does teach an embracing of Jesus, but I don't know if he believes one must repent of their sins. If you watch his sermon "When Gracy met Truthy", he seems to think grace trumps over a openly sinful lifestyle. He seems accusatory toward God as if He is unfair and acts contradictory. He even tells a story how a gay couple was serving at North Point church and was told to stop, not because of their homosexuality, but because one of the men were still married. His ministry is a big red flag to me.
Stanley is an ordained Baptist minister who preaches the biblical doctrine of salvation that salvation comes only through embracing Jesus as ones Savior and Lord and trust in Jesus alone for salvation. Stanley was stupid to state that one who is Born Again should only attend a large church. Small churches serve their purpose just as much as large churches do.
Allie, I was not implying you are unregenerate, I do think that passage should certainly cause Christians being overly judgmental to give pause and reconsider how hard we're being
Andy Stanley is a salesman. What he sells is his corporate view of how his church, North point, has succeeded and how to take his church growth model and place it in the hands of pastors or elders to build another "North Point". He promotes seminars on training pastors on how to take his model and plant a unoffensive, ungenerated model of church in your home town. The reason he said that, and then coyly took it back is because the small church is not his friend. He wants to swallow whole churches and if you don't agree with his plan, get out of the way. So, if your pastor starts having Sunday school change their names to life groups, if the timeless curriculum is tossed for Andy Stanely videos, it the sermons go from the gospel to having family time or whatever won't save your children ... Get up and leave and find a gospel blood bought church, even if that means going to an independent baptist church, gasp.
Stanley said that Christians “have a “branding problem” in that they are viewed as being “‘judgmental, homophobic, moralists’ who think they are the only ones going to heaven and who ‘secretly relish the fact that everyone else is going to hell’” (“Andy Stanley Avoids Gay Issue,” Christian Post, May 6, 2012). The fact is that it would be impossible to obey the Bible and still avoid this willful misperception on the part of unbelievers. God’s Word commands us not only to avoid the unfruitful works of darkness but also “to reprove them” (Ephesians 5:11), and the Christian preacher is to “rebuke with all authority” (Titus 2:15). The world does not take kindly to godly reproof. We are to follow Jesus’ compassionate and holy example by proclaiming man’s lost condition before a thrice holy God, warning men of eternal hell and stating that unless they repent and are born again they cannot be saved (Mark 9:43-47; Luke 13:3-5; John 3:3-5). We are God’s ambassadors to proclaim that God commands that all men everywhere repent of their sin and idolatry (Acts 17:30). This type of preaching will always result in the false charge that believers are self-righteous, judgmental moralists. [URL=http://www.wayoflife.org/friday_church_news/13_19.php]]]Andy-boy examined[/URL]
Yes, children do get lost in the cracks,[URL=http://tinyurl.com/jahj5kj]]]Grace Is Free: One Woman's Journey from Fundamentalism to Failure to Faith[/URL] by M. Preheim Read the last endorsement by Tom Rempel now head pastor at Grace Bible Church in Lincoln, but he was Marci's youth pastor at Indian Hills when she was a teenager.
It will only take a minute or two to read Tom's comment. What got me interested in Marci's book, was listening to Dr. Rugh's elaborate description of what he thought of of the book during an evening service. I didn't come to listen to his detailed explanation of his analysis, which went on for at least half an hour. In my opinion he or his wife should have read the book before commenting on it, such as Tom did. Though IHCC certainly doesn't have the membership (probably half or less?) as when Marci was there which should make it easier now to keep track of the teaching staff. A pastor probably should sit in on a class once in awhile just to make sure the plowman is plowing a straight line.
So, big churches have their problems as well as small ones. I have to say the teachers in my small Methodist Church had a better Christian attitude than the ministers did. So, perhaps there it was good the ministers didn't pay that much attention.
Pastor Jon from Fl, Do you know me personally to imply that Romans 2:1-11 applies specifically to me? It follows on the heels of the catalog of sins listed in Romans 1:18 through the end of the chapter which states that people who know those sins are wrong yet practice and approve of those who do. Then Rom 2 speaks to the hypocrisy of the one who practices those sins. By God's grace I repent of my sins daily and do not affirm them in myself or others. If you knew me personally you would know that about me. Thank you for the verses as all of God's word is inspired and profitable for reproof, correction, and equipping unto godliness. Happy Saturday and have a blessed Lord's day tomorrow.
'Bigger' does not always mean 'better'. Often there is more sacrifice involved by attending a smaller congregation for conscience's sake, than to abound in large numbers along the broad lane of lapsed biblical criteria and associations. Children need to see Bible-based role models in their Christian community, yet these are not always guaranteed in large gatherings as such.
"Narrow is the way ... which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" but, "wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat" Mat 7:13-14
If it was a biblical church, they wouldnt worry much about money! How about this one: Philippians 4:19 (KJV) But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. Good Morning everyone too.
He has since apologized. It would seem that it would be more challenging for children to make friends in a very large church than one which is smaller.Larger churches tend to be less intimate. Even Andy Stanley is viewed on a screen by different churches rather than being on a pulpit in front of them physically. I would think that this would make it more difficult for him to tend to the flock.
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[URL=http://www.gty.org/resources/questions/QA121/what-should-i-look-for-when-choosing-a-new-church-home]]] http://tinyurl.com/jhy3rtd ( What should I look for when choosing a new church home? )[/URL] .
