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Breaking News All | United Prayer | SA Center | SA Newsroom
FRONT PAGE  |  7/29/2021
WEDNESDAY, AUG 19, 2015  |  30 comments
U.S. Lacks Ammo for Next Economic Crisis
As the U.S. economic expansion ages and clouds gather overseas, policy makers worry about recession. Their concern isn’t that a downturn is imminent but whether they will have firepower to fight back when one does arrive.

Money has been Washington’s primary weapon in the decades since British economist John Maynard Keynes proposed aggressive government spending to battle the Great Depression. The U.S. generally injects cash into the economy through interest-rate cuts, tax cuts or ramped-up federal spending.

Those tools could be hard to employ when the next dip comes: Interest rates are near zero, and fiscal stimulus plans could be hampered by high levels of government debt and the prospect of growing budget deficits to cover entitlement spending on retired baby boomers. ...


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www.wsj.com

Response to economic crisis?
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•  The Rich Fool • Pastor John MacArthur | 4/23/2010
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News Item8/23/15 12:48 AM
Brother E  Find all comments by Brother E
If people desire some ism, then Voluntaryism may be a.more godly way, and it doesn't require a violent State religion like Capitalism/Communism.
30

News Item8/22/15 10:07 AM
pennnned  Find all comments by pennnned
Jim Lincoln wrote:
The first church was communist with a small "c"
that's a downright lie. sharing with your neighbor is not stealing from your neighbor. one lifts another up and welcomes the work of the Holy Spirit, the other drags a man down and is from the pits.

Mike, yes, a point can be made for that, whenever something is just, it is not conflicting with biblical teaching, the manner in which something is done.

Brother US, thank you for your input too. I'm sure with a cup of coffee I would love to hear of your experiences, this format is quite cut and dry, eh?

29

News Item8/22/15 7:16 AM
Mike | New York  Find all comments by Mike
pennned wrote:
---
greedy people don't seem to know these isms, they just push forward with their agendas and take what they want. its a bogus debate.
when businessmen can legislate to shut down their competitors and make a worse product overseas with slave labor, is that communism or capitalism?
It's the perverted version known as crony capitalism. Free enterprise capitalism works best for most, crony capitalism works for those you refer to.
28

News Item8/22/15 1:52 AM
Dave | from oz  Find all comments by Dave
Gday and God Bless you all guys :-)
27

News Item8/21/15 5:12 PM
Christopher000 | Rhode Island  Find all comments by Christopher000
Good comment, Frank.
26

News Item8/21/15 5:11 PM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Frank wrote:
... in Romania as an example; there were stores set up where only those who were members of the party could shop and of course tourists with American dollars were welcome. The rest of the non-party folks had to suffer tremendously. If some store got a particular food item in, they had to line for blocks to get it, e.g. potatoes. Babies died in homes because there was no heat and medical care was rare unless you had something to barter with. So, IMO communism creates a wealthy class and they can survive just fine. They destroy the middle class which is theoretically the backbone of capitalism and the old middle class becomes the new poor class.
Yes, this are the results of the utopia called communism.
25

News Item8/21/15 4:39 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
pennned wrote:
. its a bogus debate.
ok, we will drop the discussion, thanks for your imput.
24

News Item8/21/15 2:18 PM
Jim Lincoln | Nebraska  Find all comments by Jim Lincoln
Now, Penny, you didn't look at that article, the PDF one did you/ The first church was communist with a small "c"

Acts 2:43 And everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles.
44 And all those who had believed were together, and had all things in common;
45 and they began selling their property and possessions, and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.---[URL=http://www.lockman.org/nasb/nasbcmp.php]]]NASB[/URL]

Anyway, the Eastern Roman Empire was interesting in it's religious and social ideology. No doubt a little more caring than the Western one was. So, I'll agree with BM don't use the Bible to back an economic system.

Also, UPS, a capitalistic system never guarantees a country will be a democracy. But anyway, I do prefer the capitalist system and I like Democracy a whole lot better than the alternative!

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." (from a House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947) -- Winston Churchill

23

News Item8/21/15 1:25 PM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
I would say sister pennned, if it wasn't for capitalism.
case in point, brother. Hillary is as about as communist in her dogma as can be. we know the scandals, I remember the wall of shame from the 90's, the mysterious head pictures missing from accidents... now we have Benghazi. well, who was it that brought us nafta but her dear husband? that's business deals.

I remember going into a store and buying made in America, quality work.

now what company was she on the board of?

Walmart. - 1986-92

when was nafta passed? 1993

sounds like she's a capitalist to me, no?

they got their deal, they sold their foreign made substandard goods and ran out mom and pop stores. today you can still buy a flashlight or whatever from them, knowing it will be broken in 3 months.

here's her speech from 1990:

http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/video_hillary_clinton_in_1990_im_proud_of_walmart_20150525

greedy people don't seem to know these isms, they just push forward with their agendas and take what they want. its a bogus debate.

when businessmen can legislate to shut down their competitors and make a worse product overseas with slave labor, is that communism or capitalism?

22

News Item8/21/15 12:06 PM
Frank  Contact via emailFind all comments by Frank
Well my guess is I have visited more communist countries than most. Please don’t let 1517 read this comment. Anyway, in Romania as an example; there were stores set up where only those who were members of the party could shop and of course tourists with American dollars were welcome. The rest of the non-party folks had to suffer tremendously. If some store got a particular food item in, they had to line for blocks to get it, e.g. potatoes. Babies died in homes because there was no heat and medical care was rare unless you had something to barter with. So, IMO communism creates a wealthy class and they can survive just fine. They destroy the middle class which is theoretically the backbone of capitalism and the old middle class becomes the new poor class. We are headed down that path.

With all its flaws, capitalism is the best way for sure. It is very difficult for greed not to enter our minds and culture when we practice capitalism, but it is still the best system.

21

News Item8/21/15 11:38 AM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
pennned wrote:
Not used to hearing these things? I know, my generation has been quiet far too long. Capitalism was never profitable to my loved ones. Its been one kind of usury after another. You know, I can't even get certain things fixed, call the company and they've outsourced to India and they can't speak my language.... then I meet families where they are in dire straits because dad lost that particular job, fixing computers or something. they get it.
I would say sister pennned, if it wasn't for capitalism we would have no knowledge of each other. Also, your ideal society could only exist in a capitalistic society. Nobody saying it is perfect, if it was we wouldn't be having this discussion. The main problems we face are due to government intervention and regulations. I actually quite agree with your doomsday scenario posted in another thread. I would place the blame on the government not the economic system.

I am certainly, not trying to downplay the suffering you or those you care about go through. I would say, it is a matter of perspective.

http://havanajournal.com/politics/entry/brutally-honest-assement-of-current-life-in-cuba/

God's blessing to you and yours.

20

News Item8/21/15 11:02 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
Unproftiable Servant wrote:
Communism is not philanthropic. Philanthropy flows from capitalistic countries, people in communism live in poverty.
It is true what you say. Yet to those behind communism, this seems to be their ideal or motive, so it is a kind of 'fake' philanthropy as it were.
19

News Item8/21/15 10:45 AM
Unproftiable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unproftiable Servant
Communism is not philanthropic. Philanthropy flows from capitalistic countries, people in communism live in poverty.

The Bible speaks neither of communism or capitalism, they are terms that help us communicate to each other even though it is obvious they are not fully understood.

Our time here is but a pilgrimage. We take what God graciously provides and bless His name. People in this country and others are blessed, in relative terms, with wealth and while we are thankful for it, we don't put our trust or confidence in temporal things. Some brethren live in areas of poverty and want. I would think the allure of the world which besets us would have much less attraction to them.

The apostle Paul said it this way, "I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:12,13

Our goal should be

"Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me." Hebrews 13:5,6

18

News Item8/21/15 10:24 AM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
Brother US, interesting that... the once great 10 tribes were now equal to Sodom, because they loved not the innocent among them. eh?

How about Revelations 11:8?

"----------------, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

was our Lord not crucified in Jerusalem?

Which is spiritually Sodom and Egypt?

Like I've said, many have been insulated that it will take a stock market crash for them to feel it. sorry to say, but its true. if there was widespread land ownership and actual use of the land for food and needs, per proverbs 31, then what a few cinnamon buns in dc do, would have no impact... but everyone is forced under their system, they strip it out and bring the world under their order... with the love and affection of many who claim the name of Christ.

Not used to hearing these things? I know, my generation has been quiet far too long. Captialism was never profitable to my loved ones. Its been one kind of usery after another. You know, I can't even get certain things fixed, call the company and they've outsourced to India and they can't speak my language.... then I meet families where they are in dire straits because dad lost that particular job, fixing computers or something. they get it.

17

News Item8/21/15 3:27 AM
B. McCausland  Find all comments by B. McCausland
The Bible should not be used to justify or disprove economy systems per se. The philanthropic principles of sharing associated with communism are there, but also the principles of free enterprise - capitalism. Nobody can give what one does not have. Wealth does not happen; is generated by the ‘sweat of your brow’

“… be quiet, and to do your own business, and ... work with your own hands, … that ye may have lack of nothing.” 1Th 4:10-11

“Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, … that they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate’. 1Ti 6:17-18

Communism is a seed bed for Social Welfare systems which often rebuff individual responsibility and principles as ‘if any would not work, neither should he eat.” 2Th 3:10, or 2Th 3:12: “We command … that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.”

In humanistic terms, either system shuns out the heavenly dimension in their focus. The communist aims to create an earthly paradise without God, while the capitalist tends to build a strong self-defense independent of Him also.
In building economies, or sharing the aim is “Laying up in store ... a good foundation against the time to come” I Ti 6:19

16

News Item8/21/15 2:19 AM
O. Dear  Find all comments by O. Dear
Unprofitable Servant wrote:
The first century Christians practiced capitalism not communism.
Note Peter's words to Ananias, was it not your own, did you not have power over it.
Thousands of Jewish people showed up yearly for the feast of Pentecost. When it was over, they left.
In Acts, three thousand got saved and they stayed in the area to be taught by the disciples.
Several extra mouths to feed and people to house.
The church met those needs voluntarily by selling lands and possessions.
The rich young ruler had a covetous heart, and our Lord was trying to show him that as he professed to keep all the commandments. No other person was given the same instructions and I would doubt anyone here has done that.
The Sodom that was condemned for not strengthening the poor was a reference to Israel not the one destroyed by brimstone and fire.
All that we have is a gift from God and thus belongs to Him. As Job said the Lord gives and takes away, bless His name.
I Chronicles 29:12a 12 Both riches and honor come of thee --v14 14 But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we
15

News Item8/20/15 11:36 PM
TrueHolyBibleChristianBeliever  Find all comments by TrueHolyBibleChristianBeliever
Communism--Capitalism: All Discussions On Economic Philosophies Is Just A "Je[w]suitic" Smokescreen.

My Good Friend Dan Has Informed Me THE COMING U.S. NATIONAL & INTERNATIONAL "MELTDOWN" Is ALL ABOUT THE COLLAPSE Of THE U.S. MUNICIPAL BONDS MARKET-

Not Only Starting With THE FINANCIAL COLLAPSE OF THE MUNICIPAL BONDS MARKET IN THE U.S. ISLAND COMMONWEALTH & TERRITORY OF THE ASSOCIATED STATE OF PUERTO RICO-

But ALSO INCLUDES THE ROTH$CHILD$-ILLUMINATI ENGINEERED ECONOMIC COLLAPSE OF GREECE

&

THE EVENTUAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE OF ITALY, SPAIN, PORTUGAL, IRELAND

&

THE TOTAL RESTRUCTURING OF THE ECONOMIC ORDER OF THE E.U.-
AND THE TOTAL RESTRUCTURING OF TODAY'S ECONOMIC ORDER ON PLANET EARTH !

HE FOREWARNED ME TO BEWARE OF THE U.S./GLOBAL FEDERAL RESERVES' UPCOMING MEETINGS IN MID-SEPTEMBER &-OR EARLY OCTOBER 2015 !

I'M TOLD BY DAN THAT THOSE WHO'RE UNPREPARED Or WITHOUT SILVER, GOLD OR OTHER HARD ASSETS WILL SUFFER THE MOST UNDER THE COMING U.S. NATIONAL-/-GLOBAL MUNICIPAL BONDS MARKET "COLLAPSE":

AS EVERY MAJOR U.S. CITY WILL BE AFFECTED !

**WE'VE BEEN DULY FOREWARNED !

"And Upon The Earth Distress Of Nations, With Perplexity...Men's Hearts Failing Them For Fear..."--Luke 21:25d-e & 26a !

*THE GREATEST DEPRESSION OF BIBLICAL PROPORTION !

14

News Item8/20/15 10:55 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
Penned, capitalism works on a system that is mutually beneficial to all parties of the transactions.(obviously not true of slavery) We spent our capital on whatever device that we use to post here. No one forced us to buy it and the profit benefited the manufacturer and the product benefits us. Pretty much what you describe is simply greed. I don't see greed and capitalism as synonymous. I see your examples as pure greed not pure capitalism, there is a difference. If I beat and rob you, my gain of your assets is not capitalism at work.

If you look at the context in Ezekiel 16, it is addressed to Jerusalem (speaking of Judah), v 46 elder sister Samaria, (10 Northern tribes) v48 Sodom thy sister (which was already identified as Samaria) I am sure that there was plenty of abuse of the innocent in Sodom as they wanted to abuse the two angels, but Ezekiel is speaking to and of Israel.

13

News Item8/20/15 10:01 PM
pennned  Find all comments by pennned
Planned Parenthood, corporation makes money off of selling baby parts. that's pure capitalism. communism also, stealing from one to give to the other, perceived that there are magic life giving qualities in the remains of the unborn.

love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. speak to myself too. Just because one can make capital does not make it right. The communist wants capital just as much as any other, and there are many forms of stealing that God does not recognize as legitimate. African slavery was capitalism. It was profitable for some to enslave a man and force him to work, no different that enslaving the Chinese in factories in unlivable conditions to make substandard products at substandard wages. This is human usery as it always was.

God is above human economics.

But the first century model is not about global markets but individuals being led by the Holy Spirit. They lived in a time of buying and selling, under the gods of the day that were to be given homage, no different than today. Same world.

"Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy." Ez 16:49

12

News Item8/20/15 9:33 PM
Unprofitable Servant | Georgia  Find all comments by Unprofitable Servant
The first century Christians practiced capitalism not communism.

Note Peter's words to Ananias, was it not your own, did you not have power over it.

Thousands of Jewish people showed up yearly for the feast of Pentecost. When it was over, they left.

In Acts, three thousand got saved and they stayed in the area to be taught by the disciples.

Several extra mouths to feed and people to house.

The church met those needs voluntarily by selling lands and possessions.

The rich young ruler had a covetous heart, and our Lord was trying to show him that as he professed to keep all the commandments. No other person was given the same instructions and I would doubt anyone here has done that.

The Sodom that was condemned for not strengthening the poor was a reference to Israel not the one destroyed by brimstone and fire.

All that we have is a gift from God and thus belongs to Him. As Job said the Lord gives and takes away, bless His name.

I Chronicles 29:12a 12 Both riches and honor come of thee --v14 14 But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee.

We should be diligent to lay up treasures in heaven, for where our treasure is there will be

11
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