Calvinism committee issues report, urges SBC to 'stand together' for Great Commission
A 19-member advisory committee on Calvinism has issued its report to Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee President Frank Page, acknowledging tension and disagreement within the denomination on the issue while urging Southern Baptists to "grant one another liberty" and "stand together" for the Great Commission.
"We can talk like brothers and sisters in Christ, and we can work urgently and eagerly together," the 3,200-word report reads. "We have learned that we can have just this kind of conversation together, and we invite all Southern Baptists to join together in this worthy spirit of conversation. But let us not neglect the task we are assigned. The world desperately needs to hear the promise of the Gospel."
The advisory team -- not an official committee of the convention -- was assembled by Page in August 2012 to advise him on developing "a strategy whereby people of various...
SteveR wrote: 1. Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 2. Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 3. Isaiah 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people.. Isaiah 6:10 ..make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest . hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
1. The Apostles were asking why Jesus spoke in parables. This wasn't talking about faith. Remember, they didn't know what He meant until He explained them. Yet, some people still believed. 2. These verses are an illusion to Jer. 18-19. It says, God may speak to destroy a nation, but if they turn He will remake it into another vessel. 3. It doesn't mean they couldn't hear previously or ever. Some Pharisees eventually believed. Aagh, space!
Well, as I have pointed out before my church supports Unlimted rather Limited atonement, [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyraldism]]]Amyraldism (Four point Calvinism)[/URL], which also means exactly the same people are saved as those who would say that the five points are Biblical. But, since Dave Hunt turned on several points of Calvinism as viciously as any Catholic, this is why (Well, I haven't checked ) handle any of his books including excellent [URL=http://www.amazon.com/Woman-Rides-Beast-Catholic-Church/dp/1565071999]]]A Woman Rides the Beast: The Roman Catholic Church and the Last Days [Paperback][/URL] which makes no remarks about Calvinism. Ah, and for those who might be upset about the dispensational parts of the book, I'll remind you of [URL=http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheCalvinisticHeritageofDispensationalism.html]]]The Calvinistic Heritage of Dispensationalism[/URL].
By the way, Gil Rugh has an excellent ebook out [URL=http://www.ihcc.org/download/sites/all/files/booklets/calvinism-and-arminianism.pdf]]]Calvinism & Arminianism (PDF)[/URL], which gives you the Biblical background for the various points of Calvinism,e.g.,
"“Give yourself unto reading.” The man who never reads will never be read; he who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men’s brains, proves that he has no brains of his own.
You need to read. We are quite persuaded that the very best way for you to be spending your leisure time, is to be either reading or praying. You may get much instruction from books which afterwards you may use as a true weapon in your Lord and Master’s service. Paul cries, “Bring the books” — join in the cry." (from Spurgeon’s, "Paul — His Cloak and His Books)
John for JESUS wrote: 4. May God be merciful to me a sinner. But who are you to judge another man's servant?
4. John, if your doctrine says one thing, but your practise denies it, I have every right to suspect both your doctrine and you. This is not being judgmental, but sensible. If you also do not do this, I suggest you make a start, lest false prophets and heretics get a hold of you. Oops, too late, they already have.
John for JESUS wrote: U-Unlimited offer of salvation. .
Good Morning John, It seems you have your plate full this morning and I appreciate your 'other peoples' reponse to my earlier question. I have to put the earlier answer in the 'I dont know' column. Your U goes up the Reformed 'L' (Limited Atonement)
It seems to contradict many areas of Scripture , just a few due to character limits on SA
Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Isaiah 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people.. Isaiah 6:10 ..make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest . hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
John UK wrote: 1. No, rocks do NOT cry out to the lost. 2. The early missionary societies believed that if a person did not hear, they could not believe; and if they did not believe on Christ, they could not be saved. 3. Now John, you claim that God has an intense love for every single person, shown by Jesus dying for every single person, thereby making them saveable by his shed blood. 4. But this doctrine of your's does not have the effect of constraining you to go reach as many people as possible with the gospel. Therefore either you do not really believe it, or you are a slothful, wicked servant who does not his Master's will.
1. "If these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out." (Luke 19:40). Silly me, I should have said stones. Or do you suppose Jesus was wrong? God loves us so much that if believers remained silent, He would still spread the Gospel truth miraculously. 2. "And how shall they preach, except they be sent?" (Rms 10:15). God sends the truth so that they may hear and be saved. 3. God claimed to love the world in John 3:16. 4. May God be merciful to me a sinner. But who are you to judge another man's servant? To his own master he stands or falls.
John for JESUS wrote: John UK... And while the Dutchies and Frenchies were arguing with one another, thousands more lost souls went over the cliff into the abyss, never to be seen again... ...and the church said, "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz." 1. Even if this were true, would the rocks not cry out to the lost? 2. Nobody will be lost because they didn't know, will they?
1. No, rocks do NOT cry out to the lost.
2. The early missionary societies believed that if a person did not hear, they could not believe; and if they did not believe on Christ, they could not be saved.
Now John, you claim that God has an intense love for every single person, shown by Jesus dying for every single person, thereby making them saveable by his shed blood. But this doctrine of your's does not have the effect of constraining you to go reach as many people as possible with the gospel. Therefore either you do not really believe it, or you are a slothful, wicked servant who does not his Master's will.
You are no different to Frenchies. You all say, "zzzzzzzzzzz."
And since last night, thousands more have crossed the Jordan into hell.
U-Unlimited offer of salvation. It is not limited to a select few, it is for you, your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord God will call (Acts 2:39).
CV wrote: Can you have "free will" if you have election?
Yes, because God only selects believers for salvation. We only have the free will to repent and believe when God presents the Gospel message to us. Those who believe are then elect unto salvation.
John UK... And while the Dutchies and Frenchies were arguing with one another, thousands more lost souls went over the cliff into the abyss, never to be seen again... ...and the church said, "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz."
Even if this were true, would the rocks not cry out to the lost? Nobody will be lost because they didn't know, will they?
And while the Dutchies and Frenchies were arguing with one another, thousands more lost souls went over the cliff into the abyss, never to be seen again...
Troll spotter wrote: If the issue is free will, then whether the gospel is revealed to some and not to others the question proves nothing.
If the gospel is not revealed to some, then how are they to decide upon it? You will need to explain this further. At this point this is all I see it as.
Troll spotter wrote: If the issue is free will, then whether the gospel is revealed to some and not to others the question proves nothing. It would only matter if someone was arguing against election. As far as I am aware that has not been the issue in this thread and so the question asked is irrelevant at best.
SteveR... I don't think there is enough information about those cultures to be dogmatic, but the Bible teaches us that the Gospel has gone out into all the world. Even if they did not have scriptures, they would be responsible to believe in God as those from before the Bible was written.
CV If you feel this way then by all means go ahead and give him the best genuine Biblical answer you might, although Troll Spotter has already given one that SteveR has apparently ignored, making me think his question really isn't any kind of honest inquiry for knowledge or understanding but of course that is my opinion.
If you decide to correspond with SteveR, I might just step back a little and watch how things unfold between the two of you.
CV wrote: Your questions legit. If man responds on his own to the gospel after hearing, then those tribes that never heard the message perished. If man's response is a deciding factor, then God was unjust in withholding something they needed to be saved. Michael, if your premise is correct, then either way, God by inaction "unelected" some.
If the issue is free will, then whether the gospel is revealed to some and not to others the question proves nothing. It would only matter if someone was arguing against election. As far as I am aware that has not been the issue in this thread and so the question asked is irrelevant at best.
SteveR wrote: You claim 35 years of salvation and you never heard this? You dont pass the small test for a Christian sorry.... "Again as asked to JFJ I understand Reformed Theology is both counter intuitive and counter cultural, so I understand your desire for a different TULIP. So let me ask some questions about your new TULIP and the most famous passage of todays culture John 3:16 You also quoted Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? I ask you, Was God unable to save those peoples he loved (Jn 3:16)that didnt have contact with missionaries? Like the Natives of North and South America prior to Western exploration"
Your questions legit.
If man responds on his own to the gospel after hearing, then those tribes that never heard the message perished.
If man's response is a deciding factor, then God was unjust in withholding something they needed to be saved. Michael, if your premise is correct, then either way, God by inaction "unelected" some.
Troll spotter wrote: Idiotic question for sure, but I am sure we're all becoming accustomed to your posts which are always vacuous.
You claim 35 years of salvation and you never heard this? You dont pass the small test for a Christian sorry....
"Again as asked to JFJ
I understand Reformed Theology is both counter intuitive and counter cultural, so I understand your desire for a different TULIP. So let me ask some questions about your new TULIP and the most famous passage of todays culture John 3:16 You also quoted Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
I ask you, Was God unable to save those peoples he loved (Jn 3:16)that didnt have contact with missionaries? Like the Natives of North and South America prior to Western exploration"
SteveR wrote: You might call this an idiotic question, but its a question that the evangelized will ask. Its a question children will ask. They seek God & true wisdom, not your delusions to reinforce some unresolved anger in your background. And certainly not the false assurance that you display.... Again as asked to JFJ I understand Reformed Theology is both counter intuitive and counter cultural, so I understand your desire for a different TULIP. So let me ask some questions about your new TULIP and the most famous passage of todays culture John 3:16 You also quoted Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? I ask you, Was God unable to save those peoples he loved (Jn 3:16)that didnt have contact with missionaries? Like the Natives of North and South America prior to Western exploration
And you with all your knowledge of reformed theology don't know???
Anyway I sure hope you will at sometime ask something that you really need to hear the answer to. Thanks once more for letting us know you are still there.
SteveR wrote: You might call this an idiotic question, but its a question that the evangelized will ask. Its a question children will ask. They seek God & true wisdom, not your delusions to reinforce some unresolved anger in your background. And certainly not the false assurance that you display.... Again as asked to JFJ I understand Reformed Theology is both counter intuitive and counter cultural, so I understand your desire for a different TULIP. So let me ask some questions about your new TULIP and the most famous passage of todays culture John 3:16 You also quoted Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? I ask you, Was God unable to save those peoples he loved (Jn 3:16)that didnt have contact with missionaries? Like the Natives of North and South America prior to Western exploration
Idiotic question for sure, but I am sure we're all becoming accustomed to your posts which are always disappointingly vacuous.
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) handle any of his books including excellent [URL=http://www.amazon.com/Woman-Rides-Beast-Catholic-Church/dp/1565071999]]]A Woman Rides the Beast: The Roman Catholic Church and the Last Days [Paperback][/URL] which makes no remarks about Calvinism. Ah, and for those who might be upset about the dispensational parts of the book, I'll remind you of [URL=http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/TheCalvinisticHeritageofDispensationalism.html]]]The Calvinistic Heritage of Dispensationalism[/URL].
