"I am imploring my Christian friends to learn about the complexity of the human body..."
jpw, hold it right there. Only God understands the complexities of the human body. Man cannot even understand when wild goats calve - God said so in Job 39:1-2, & says more in nearby verses. Have zoology & other natural sciences proven God wrong? And do medical doctors have a perfect record in diagnosing human disease? You may as well say we can learn the complexities of subatomic physics on Betelgeuse.
Now if folks are *fearful* of aborting a conceived child, I have no problem with erring on the side of caution. But that is not what "Yo Mama" said initially - he made a universal claim about cause & effect that I say cannot be proven. To him, apparently, science is as good a source of truth as Scripture.
John UK wrote: For God to intimately know every single act of wickedness throughout the world 24/7, even every wicked thought and evil motives, and yet not instantly demolish this world of people in the fiercest of wrath, is yet another example of his grace, mercy and lovingkindness
bless you brother an edifying and fearful post, and how know ye my given name
i have some islands named after me and discovered by one of my illustrious ancestors james mortlock on a voyage from the australias to britain at a time when our brethren on this forum were yet within the embrace of empire and the blessed johnathan edwards could count himself a briton
i should add that i have taken the liberty to advertise my fame in my genesis and geomorphology presentation by including these islands which are the remains of guyots which are truncated volcanoes having had their tops chopped off by the raging waters of the genesis flood and evidence of the sea basins dropping at the end of the genesis flood according to psalm 118
prince charles wrote: its an awful thing to think that a woman will make her womb a childs grave God must be very angry, I think its impossible to imagine how angry He is
Not many posts from you lately john uk are you feeling ok ?
For God to intimately know every single act of wickedness throughout the world 24/7, even every wicked thought and evil motives, and yet not instantly demolish this world of people in the fiercest of wrath, is yet another example of his grace, mercy and lovingkindness in delaying judgment, plus of course the simple fact that there are yet sheep to be born into this world who will be evidenced as 'children of promise' (see previous post). But the time will come, and it will be a dark day, The Day of The Lord.
God bless you Brother Mortlock, I am really busy, and getting behind with everything, but even if I post not, I still check out all the posts so as not to lose track.
Don't be fooled by changing lingo. Liberal groups will say that pregnancy begins at implantation! Then they can say that the emergency chemical pills they are pushing never stopped a pregnancy. Of course, the biblical concept is that life begins when the sperm and ovum come together and make a new individual life and personhood begins then. So this is what I mean when I say that life begins at conception. This is definitely an in-house discussion (Christians) because most people would just read the mechanisms of the pill and go "ya, who cares?" The reason the debate gets heated among Christians is that we know what the bible says about when life begins, even the first week of pregnancy. I am not the great science master here! I am imploring my Christian friends to learn about the complexity of the human body then the mechanisms of the pill will begin to make sense to you. Neil, if you want to repudiate other things you may. I am not trying to make anything illegal here, I would say that scripture is very clear that life begins at conception and so anything that would stop any life after conception at any point, I would be against that. If you want to debate that life does't begin at conception, using the bible, go right ahead...I don't think think that's what you meant.
There is no difference in a mother walking up to the alter of Molec and sacrificing her child and a mother using birth control to terminate the life in her womb. Both actions terminate life, the only difference is the amount that the life form is allowed to live from conception through termination of that life form. If you want to argue from the bible to eliminate the practice of birth control (abortion),then consider the commandment, "do not murder." Christ said that He came so that you would not live in sin. We as Christians are commended that when we see brothers and sisters in sin, we are to go to them, and hold them accountable. So far, everyone is running from accountablility. Wake up and smell! Arise from your deep sleep! Open your eyes! Pray that the Spirit of God may convict your sinfull thoughts, stop greaving the Spirit.
jpw, yes, I do have a difficult time with illogical reasoning, like the causal fallacy implied in your mention of the effects of the pill on miscarriage. Causality is one of several *fatal* problems in all scientific claims, whether made by Creationists or atheists. These problems compel me to deny that empirical science has truth value, however useful it may be. We can't pick & choose which bits of extra-biblical science to believe, & which to deny (e.g., laws of science imply miracles can't happen).
If you don't like birth control, then let's see the deductive reasoning from Scripture instead. Then not only the Pill but all other forms can be repudiated.
Neil, It seems you are having a difficult time with this. You've got to read the information for yourself! If you really want to understand, you have to learn more about fertility and how that plays out, it is much more complex and beautiful than we are often told, of course, because it was the hand of God that made us (not just an accidental evolutionary chemical process). There are 3 mechanisms to the pill. The first two are contraceptive in nature, the third is abortifacient. SJ John, I am REALLY glad you did not try them out as candy! The pills back in the 60s were a lot more powerful, of course, they killed some women and injured countless unknown others, possibly women that you love, so they decreased the amount of estrogen, and the other mechanisms became larger players in the process, which really means the alterations of the hormones on the woman's body could affect the zygote (a newly conceived life) from implanting. There's whole articles just on estimates of how many "early miscarriages" you might call them, occur every year due to the third mechanism of the pill. Yes, public school Sex Ed made us really shhhmmaarrrt!
Neil wrote: SJ John, you got me curious - according to Wikipedia's [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_oral_contraceptive_pill]]]article[/URL], the Pill was approved by the FDA in 1960, but it took over a decade before Supreme Court decisions made it available to married, and later unmarried, women in all the states. As with abortion, right to privacy was the rationale for the judgments. BTW, claims that the Pill is abortive rely on the scientific method, which is itself fallacious. But this is not to argue that birth control in principle is ethical.
That makes sense, and jives with my usually reliable memory. My mom took the pill not long after I was born in 1962 but got a hysterectome a few years later. That means Ohio and/or Illinois must have approved the pill for married couples around 1963-65. Even so, she neglected to discard her old pills which I found in a drawer in the late 60s. Thankfully they were all locked in one of those weird cases resembling an old telephone rotary dial. Otherwise I'd likely have sample them, thinking them to be CANDY.
If you pull out the little white paper inside the birth control packet, it will tell you that it is an abortificient. The drug companies have to tell you.....legal requirments! Otherwize, you could sue them for non-disclure. Let's be logical about this......would you intentionally get pregnant and then use birthcontrol pills while you are pregnant and expect you baby to live.......let's not be intentionally dumb and stupid Christians, check out the facts, do the research!
SJ John, you got me curious - according to Wikipedia's [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_oral_contraceptive_pill]]]article[/URL], the Pill was approved by the FDA in 1960, but it took over a decade before Supreme Court decisions made it available to married, and later unmarried, women in all the states. As with abortion, right to privacy was the rationale for the judgments.
BTW, claims that the Pill is abortive rely on the scientific method, which is itself fallacious. But this is not to argue that birth control in principle is ethical.
Yo Mama wrote: If you allow your wife to use the birthcontrol pill, then your family is practicing abortion. If you are a Christian and you use birth control, you are practicing abortion (murder). You will know Christians by their love for one another.......Any Christian who uses birth control pills does not have the facts...........!You will know what a man is by what proceeds out of his heart.....if you use birth control pills or IUDs, then murder is flowing out of your heart, and your little ones (children) are flowing out of you. Be ye holy for I am holy.
I think you're overstating a bit but still on the right track. Birth control pills don't kill, but their introduction (in the 1950's?) did more than anything else to establish the huge slippery slope leading to abortion.
The overpopulation scare of the late 60s and early 70s and the perceived diminishment of parents' personal economic abundance as family sized increased also contributed to the present mess we're in.
If you allow your wife to use the birthcontrol pill, then your family is practicing abortion. If you are a Christian and you use birth control, you are practicing abortion (murder). You will know Christians by their love for one another.......Any Christian who uses birth control pills does not have the facts...........!You will know what a man is by what proceeds out of his heart.....if you use birth control pills or IUDs, then murder is flowing out of your heart, and your little ones (children) are flowing out of you. Be ye holy for I am holy.
Apparently in Japan, even the "Pill" would be better form of contraception. Apparently there is (was?) big bucks in performing abortions. [URL=http://news.stanford.edu/pr/96/960214japanabort.html]]]Djerassi on birth control in Japan - abortion 'yes[/URL]. Some of the reasons why the Japanese are an endangered species in their own homeland!
Those billboards sound like a good idea to me, they just have a greater area to be used. Abortion is a worldwide plague and sin.
I am so glad this info is getting out. Marg. Sanger was all about taking out minority populations, perhaps a little incentive will open the eyes of our young women in America. If you look at the statistics, it does look like genocide.