About a year ago, Linda Long was attending the East London Holiness Church in London, Ky. That's one of a handful of churches in the country that practice snake handling, which is exactly what it sounds like it is -- congregation members handle venomous snakes in the belief that the faithful will not be harmed.
Long was bitten in the cheek by a rattlesnake and died -- and now her family is suing the hospital where she was brought for treatment.
In a suit filed earlier this month, Long's family alleges employees of a London, Ky. hospital ridiculed Long when she was brought there after the attack and failed to treat her in a timely manner. She later was airlifted to the University of Kentucky Medical Center, where she died....
My message before this one says it quite well concerning, [URL=http://www.kentucky.com/2014/02/16/3092068/jamie-coots-well-known-snake-handling.html]]]Jamie Coots, well-known Middlesboro preacher, dies from snakebite[/URL], truly [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=48111249372]]]Some Gifts Not Present Today[/URL] and snake handling is one of them
Gil Rugh said or, wrote: Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ and that permeates everything he says and writes. Paul wrote at least three letters to the Corinthians, located in one of the most important, very large, and very corrupt cities of the Roman Empire. God chose only to include two of these letters in His Word. We will take two studies to cover the first three verses of 1st Corinthians. He wrote this letter because he heard there were quarrels among the Corinthians. Paul also wrote about issues they had asked him about, starting with Chap. 7., giving them divine revelation on those matters. We'll have a detailed look at Paul's role as an Apostle. Apostles were a divinely appointed group of men to represent Jesus Christ and spread the message about Him. It was God's initiative and action that resulted in Paul being called as an Apostle. Paul is the last Apostle. There are no more Apostles. We do not need any new revelation from God nor will we get it. Our Bibles are complete.
Anna wrote: I am not referring to sermon audio's sermons either but to this forum, or have you never noticed the anger and personal insults that have been known to fly around?
We never hear about Matthias,(look into church history and you will find a wealth of info into how the canon was formed) except in Rev..where the 12 Apostles Scripture tells us they prayed about it. It was when I asked about this to a Minister once and he actually said to me " 12th apostle should have been Paul" who is to say or prove that paul was the last "apostle"?
Anna
The way I see it I agree with you, anger and personnel insults are all to much in use here. I think its wrong, and a good way to tell them by thier furits, sometimes a christian makes a mistake, but its all in there pattern, what comes out of a man defiles him. Same thing, Matthias, Satan was around when the cannon was formed, be careful chuch history should not trump, or add to Gods word, but agree with. The Bible does not contradict itself, when in Rev. says 12, its 12. I, maybe you, pray alot of things, the Bible says to pray about all things, does that mean instant results? Did God answer there prayers, yes Paul Was Paul the last, thats what the Bible says. Thanks terry
I cannot tell Terry if you are being sarcastic or not. I am not referring to sermon audio's sermons either but to this forum, or have you never noticed the anger and personal insults that have been known to fly around?
We never hear about Matthias,(look into church history and you will find a wealth of info into how the canon was formed) except in Rev..where the 12 Apostles of the Lamb are mentioned. Peter will have been led by The Holy Spirit when they chose Matthias as Scripture tells us they prayed about it. It was when I asked about this to a Minister once and he actually said to me "Peter wasn't listening to The Holy Spirt as the 12th apostle should have been Paul" that I started to look into this. The whole point is, who is to say or prove that paul was the last "apostle"?
anna wrote: I do not see any need for sarcasm Terry, as a scholarly response would have been more palatable.However, this is Sermon audio, where sarcasm, anger and often verbal abuse is quite normal ! For all of you who say they believe in scripture, my advice is read it then ! All I am writing about is found in scripture! have I denied Paul was an "Apostle "? no. ........ If you Terry, or anyone else has a problem with this it is hardly my fault !
Sorry Anna
I must have miss read your comment.
You are so right about this web site the comment section, love the sermons, you can hear so many sides of a verse, you can almost tell what denomination the speaker is by what he says.
Are we all being led by the spirit, not the same spirit anyway. (christians in general)
Oh and Matthias, never hear anymore about him, I don't think they were to draw straws, they just thought there should be someone to replace judus, so they could be back up to 12, I think its one of the first examples of man bringing religion into the church, thus 12, picked by Jesus.
The way I see it, with the help of the Holy Spirit, I pray.
Again sorry, forgive me for not being more attentive.
I do not see any need for sarcasm Terry, as a scholarly response would have been more palatable.However, this is Sermon audio, where sarcasm, anger and often verbal abuse is quite normal ! For all of you who say they believe in scripture, my advice is read it then ! All I am writing about is found in scripture! have I denied Paul was an "Apostle "? no. He was just not one of the original Apostles though as they are the twelve as referred to by Jesus himself in Rev. the twelfth being Matthias chosen after prayer (Acts 1. 20-26) If you Terry, or anyone else has a problem with this it is hardly my fault !
It should also be noted that Paul was actually bitten by a poisonous snake which he later shook-off into a campfire on Malta, following his last shipwreack in the book of Acts.
These snake-handlers are not going nearly as far as Paul did or the "children" in the book of Isaiah who held asps and placed their hands on the cockatric's den (Isaiah).
kenny wrote: If you click on the URL that I posted below and watch some of the YouTube clips of these folks, several of them are shown drinking poison or at least claiming to (in addition to handling the snakes). I've heard that the beat of the music hypnotizes the snakes and renders them unable or unwilling to strike. I have no idea whether that's true or not and I do not care to find out. I'm a firm believer in the old adage about the only good snake being a dead one. The video clips are unsettling to say the least.
Those were AMAZING videos. Thanks!
The use of beat/rythym to keep snakes from striking reminded me of a similar tactic used by snake-charmers in India.
...and if I can drink WATER, and claim it's "poison", I guess I can fake most if not all other elements of Mark 16.
One issue leads into another... but all the same my point on apostolic office requirements not being met by todays claimants is validated by both of your replies.
1Co9 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)
I'll let God be true and every man a liar. And as far as I'm concerned, all of scripture is God's truth.
anna wrote: Actually Allan, Paul said he saw Jesus but his damascus road experience changes-different when before Agrippa than in Acts as written by (presumably )Luke whom Paul will have related his story as we know of no other witnesses to this except the men with him . Paul said he heard a voice.There are three different versions of this story. Apart from that Paul claimed to have had visions etc. However there are no witnesses to these visions and revelations . The criteria for a original Apostle can be read of at the beginning of Acts. Peter's criteria for choosing a 12th Apostle to replace Judas was on the basis that this person had been with Jesus since his baptism by John, followed his ministry and saw him after his resurrection and before his ascension. Therefore Paul cannot be on the same Apostleship level as the 12. Also Rev mentions 12...
Man I really liked Paul There you go, what 75% of the NT, now I don't have to understand some of those tuff verses, thanks Anna. I never thought of just throwing the Bible away, you so smart. OH, was that verse about Not Many Wise you know which one I mean, did Paul write that? Hope so. Might want to think about Peter did not have a vote on Paul, Jesus picked him, I think He picked them all.
Actually Allan, Paul said he saw Jesus but his damascus road experience changes-different when before Agrippa than in Acts as written by (presumably )Luke whom Paul will have related his story as we know of no other witnesses to this except the men with him . Paul said he heard a voice.There are three different versions of this story. Apart from that Paul claimed to have had visions etc. However there are no witnesses to these visions and revelations .
The criteria for a original Apostle can be read of at the beginning of Acts. Peter's criteria for choosing a 12th Apostle to replace Judas was on the basis that this person had been with Jesus since his baptism by John, followed his ministry and saw him after his resurrection and before his ascension.
Therefore Paul cannot be on the same Apostleship level as the 12. Also Rev mentions 12 Apostles of the Lamb and not 13.
One of the Biblical requirements of an Apostle was to have physically met Jesus face to face. That is why Paul qualified because it says he was taught one on one by Jesus.
After that time, scripture says that the next time Jesus is seen will be returning in the clouds. And that if anyone says he's here, or there, that we are to ignore them as deceivers. When people see him, we'll all see him.
That's just one of the requirements but it's a sticking point.
" Jim Lincoln wrote: "Even though these two verses are only in Mark, they do apply -- to the Apostles, Paul demonstrated many of these abilities, and he was the last person to be an Apostle." AMEN! That is exactly right!" ____
Please show Chapter and Verse where it is stated that Paul was the last person to be an Apostle.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
God has set the ministries in the church. If some are done away with, so are all the others, i.e., evangelists, pastors, and teachers. You cannot take what you like and pitch out the rest.
We do not see anyone (to my knowledge)who has entered into the ministry of an Apostle today because of the carnality of the churches but that does not prove the ministries of the True Church have changed.
MurrayA, Brother Don thinks I have it right. I would suggest you listen to the following,
Gil Rugh said or, wrote: ... Are all the gifts mentioned in the Bible still necessary for the functioning of the Church today? Is God still giving direct revelation to man today?
This careful study of the Scriptures reveals that the Truth given by God to the Church through the prophets and apostles is complete. Having completed His revelation to the Church, the giftedness that enabled it to be written down and communicated to the Church are no longer needed nor are those abilities that authenticated their ministry.
Much confusion has resulted from a misunderstanding of the spiritual gifts given to the Church today. In the context of this letter of Paul's to the Corinthians we learn crucial details for understanding what are true abilities given to believers today and which, if claimed to be in use, are not a supernatural ability given by the Spirit.
I had opportunity to see some of this first hand in Tennessee in the 1950's, and they were drinking something they claimed to be poison. It was clear like moonshine (which it might have been I guess) but they claimed it was strychnine. Since their entire behavior was bizzare to me, I could not tell if they were getting loaded or not. I had no desire to ever see it again. I don't believe the Scripture verses are an invitation to put God to the test, which is expressly forbidden in the Bible, isn't it?
Jim Lincoln wrote: "Even though these two verses are only in Mark, they do apply -- to the Apostles, Paul demonstrated many of these abilities, and he was the last person to be an Apostle."
If you click on the URL that I posted below and watch some of the YouTube clips of these folks, several of them are shown drinking poison or at least claiming to (in addition to handling the snakes).
I've heard that the beat of the music hypnotizes the snakes and renders them unable or unwilling to strike. I have no idea whether that's true or not and I do not care to find out. I'm a firm believer in the old adage about the only good snake being a dead one.
John wrote: I don't hear of any of these people drinking poison during their worship services, which is surely inconsistent on their part, since the passage in Mark mentions holding snakes AND drinking poisons. Then again, it's MUCH easier for non-cessationsts to FAKE the former than the latter. As long as they can avoid being bitten they're fine, but if they drink "any deadly thing" they'd BETTER have Brother Ralph on hand with his "sanctified" stomach pump, or they're TOAST! With the authority of the church and it's leaders established, and the Bible itself completed by the end of the 1st century, all those fancy miraculous gifts which the non-cessationsists love so much are simply no longer needed. They are at best a distraction, and at worse, HERESY.
God bless you; this is one that you and I agree on 100%
I don't hear of any of these people drinking poison during their worship services, which is surely inconsistent on their part, since the passage in Mark mentions holding snakes AND drinking poisons.
Then again, it's MUCH easier for non-cessationsts to FAKE the former than the latter.
As long as they can avoid being bitten they're fine, but if they drink "any deadly thing" they'd BETTER have Brother Ralph on hand with his "sanctified" stomach pump, or they're TOAST!
With the authority of the church and it's leaders established, and the Bible itself completed by the end of the 1st century, all those fancy miraculous gifts which the non-cessationsists love so much are simply no longer needed.
They are at best a distraction, and at worse, HERESY.
Dr. Alan Cairns | 12/29/2008
Denis Lyle | 11/7/2006
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