The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination

By Lorraine Boettner

Also available in MP3 here:

Hidemi Williges wrote:
djc49,
Picking a fight, are you?
If the KJV is so old, inaccurate and corrupt; then why are there hundreds of new versions(All of them proclaiming to update the old classic KJV and having the latest discoveries and modern readability)?
Since when are sins and evil, the same thing? Explain.
Maybe, if these money grubbing and corrupt churches had adhered to a KJV Bible, they wouldn't be in the position that are in.
BTW, When you mention the greek, be honest. You mean the westcott and hort text.

Mr. Dispy wrote:
But one more time: although the Reformers recovered very important truth from the papists, they were not able to recover all the truth. In particular, they ignored eschatology and bungled ecclesiology, which is how we ended up with all the denominations.

This is how we ended up with all the denominations.

There is Reformed Theology, and then there are just various forms of unbelief!

Tony Lopez-Cisneros wrote:
"djc49": you are one of the damned (to the Great Tribulation & The GREATEST TRIBULATION: Which Is The Eternal Lake Of Fire) if you do NOT hold to or believe the LITERAL interpretation of The Authorized Holy Bible-Scriptures and/or The LITERAL interpretation of The Authorized Historic Writings Of The Apostolic Pre/Post-Nicene Apologists of The Pre-Tribulation/Millennial RAPTURE !
PERIOD !
By The Way, I, Tony Lopez-Cisneros, Have NEVER Said "Not having the 'right' eschatology is tantamount to being LOST and reprobate"--

Well what do you know! Tony Lopez Cisneros believes in the doctrine of reprobation after all! Strange, but the dispy's the RCC's and the Arminians condemn us to eternal damnation as reprobate because we believe in the doctrine of reprobation and amillenialism!

Candle Lit wrote:
Oh, .co.uk sounds good for your website. Everything UK seems to be interesting to Americans - from my perspective.

Candle Lit wrote:
Let's start with your last statement. God has not delivered a person from himself but from his SINS. He is no longer a SLAVE to the god of this world. The POWER of sin has been broken. That gives one a testimony. I once was lost, but now I'm found, was blind, but now I see! Praise God He has delivered ME! Can you say that? With wonder?
Backtracking, if all you know of the charismatics is flag waving - never seen that - dancing - David danced before the Lord - unintelligable speech, well, the NT says "Forbid not to speak in tongues" and it may be unintelligable to you, then perhaps you are lumping people together and calling it crazy. But, you would be wrong. A few Godly people that I know have spoken in tongues, and danced in the Spirit.

Candle Lit wrote:
From personal experience, the Baptists have a better understanding of the Holy Spirit than the Presbyterians. The Presbyterians rarely even mention the Holy Spirit, except somewhat mystically.

How so? If the Holy Spirit is the illuminator of the true image of God, wouldn't the evidence of the Holy Spirit's work be the correct understanding of whom God is and how He requires us to approach Him in worship? In proper reverance, respect and fear? Isn't it the Holy Spirit that reveals proper worship through spoken Word and sacrament rather than through dancing, personal experience, flag waiving, obscure utterances of unintelligable speach. Isn't it the Holy Spirit that draws our particular attention to the atonement of Christ and His finished work in salvation rather than the methodology of the sacrament of Baptism? Is it not the work of the Holy Spirit that draws our attention to God's effecacious grace to the elect rather than our story about what Christ has done in our life?

Candle Lit wrote:
Hi, Roger,
I know from your posts that you are the "intellectual and theological elite." I am not. But, you know what, as Christians, whatever our station in life is, whatever our education, we are told to go into all the world and proclaim the gospel.

Thank you for your usual attack on my person rather than dealing with the subject matter.

Candle Lit wrote:
From personal experience, the Baptists have a better understanding of the Holy Spirit than the Presbyterians. The Presbyterians rarely even mention the Holy Spirit, except somewhat mystically.

Are we to construct our systematic theology through personal experiences?

Yes the charismatics manifest a style of ecstatic worship that is foreign to the scriptures except for maybe here:

"And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome; but the noise of them that sing, do I hear". And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the DANCING; and Moses' anger waxed hot". Exodus 32:18

and:

prince charles wrote:
And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
clear enough isnt it DJC ?

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit was a post resurrection event. It was not required before the resurrection because it had to do with God's presence. In the old covenent economy God's presence "dwelt" in the tabernacle and the temple on the mercy seat. This took place until the temple was destroyed and then left desolate for 400 years. (Matt 23:38) Then, when Christ appeared, God tabernacled among men in real physical presence in the human body of Christ.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt (tabernacled) among us" (John 1:14)

The Holy Spirit "came upon" saints and "is poured out upon" saints in the O.T. and empowers them to believe and do miraculous works.

John UK wrote:
At least he's got his doctrine straightened out now he's in heaven, if a little too late to prevent damage in the churches.

Rudi wrote:
I ask myself, when I pray for a sick person and that person is not healed even though Jesus promises that if we ask anything in His Name it will be done !
If my faith in these type of promises is not real, how can I be sure that my faith in His saving grace is real !

Here is a question for all of you faith based healing sects. If it be God's will for people to be healed of their physical ailments, why does He then appear to not heal any amputees. Why does he only cure diseases and ailments that are not able to be verified by the human eye?

[URL=http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm]]]A question for Faith Based Healers[/URL]

Rudi wrote:
Well John,
what can I say ? God has shown me that all churches in the west are dead!
I am sorry to say mine is no exception!

Rudi

Talk about wolves in sheep's clothing aka false prophets.

"Allegory is a form of extended metaphor, in which objects, persons, and actions in a narrative, are equated with the meanings that lie outside the narrative itself. The underlying meaning has moral, social, religious, or political significance, and characters are often personifications of abstract ideas as charity, greed, or envy"

In other words, and allegory strives to force a moral lesson "into the text".

Typology is a theological doctrine of theory of types and their antitypes found in Scripture.

Even though Rudi is trying to force Jesus as the archetype of the type tree. He is using typology not using allegory.

I don't agree with Rudy on the tree being a type of Christ. but he is not using an allegory.

Jim Lincoln wrote:
Ah, gentlemen, I think the sin question has really been adequately covered ages ago.
Romes 3
23for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

Always the question should be, [URL=http://www.ihcc.org/images/booklets/pdf/L131.pdf]]]How to Have Victory Over Sin[/URL]

We will never have Victory over Sin in this present life. Unless you define Victory of Sin as the ability of the believer to continue to trust in Christ for his salvation, by the power of his spirit.

Veritas wrote:
Dont bring people to church... its not the churches job to save people... the job of the church is to prepare the deciples to spead the Gospel... now it is okay for someone to get saved in church of course but that is not the purpose of the church...

Lance Eccles wrote:
This is certainly excessive, but not wrong. These people wish to share in Jesus' sacrifice.
After all, if you don't wish to share in Jesus' sacrifice through prayers and works (these two are much the same thing, in my opinion), then you won't get to heaven.
He did it. It's finished. But it's no use to us if we just say "Lord, Lord" and ignore it.

You have not shed your works righteousness and bowed your prideful self before the Son.

John UK wrote:
Got it, ta DJC49
Well, I don't know what this 'sign and the seal of their acceptance into the physical church' means.
As far as I know, Roger, there is no belief in baptism being a continuation or fulfillment of the OT circumcision.

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were "SEALED" with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

John UK wrote:
Amen! It's simple really, but so many churches want to play God and restrict communion.

[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QGJsGw36Hk&feature=PlayList&p=090468E85C40DEE2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=4]]]David Allens Defense of the Double Payment Theory [/URL]