Lurker wrote: If these are your convictions then you did well by not being one of the 106.5 million Americans viewers. However, I don't share your convictions and enjoyed the game with my family.
I notice from your previous position posts that you don't pay much heed to Biblical statutes and doctrines, but I see you also pay little or no regard to the commandments either. Sadly no surprise here. By watching the TV you contract with people to work on the Sabbath in various ways, encouraging them to work on the Sabbath. This is breaking the law of God.
GOD's Command on the Sabbath, - HIS Word is forever. "10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"
"But exactly how is swearing an act of confession and worship? When we duly swear in God's name, we confess several things about God. To begin with, we confess that God exists. Moreover, we confess several of God's attributes as revealed to us in Scripture: we testify THAT HE IS OMNIPRESENT and omniscient, that He is eternal and immutable, that He is just and true, that He is powerful and wrathful. By confessing His existence and attributes, we also confess that He is the Supreme Judge over all the earth and that we are accountable to Him for all that we do and say. Though the word of men may fail, the word of God never fails. Though men may fail, God never fails. By taking oaths in God's name, we confess God to be the ultimate arbiter of truth, and we worship the God of truth in spirit and in truth." (David G Hagopian, on confessions)
Do you confess God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as greater spiritually than man can ever conceive and imagine? Infinite - Omnipotent - Sovereign - Almighty - Omnipresent.
Question 48. But if his human nature is not present, wherever his Godhead is, are not then these two natures in Christ separated from one another?
Answer: Not as all, for since the Godhead is illimitable and omnipresent, (a) it must necessarily follow that the same is beyond the limits of the human nature he assumed, (b) and yet is nevertheless in this human nature, and remains personally united to it.
(a) Acts 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Jer.23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD. (b) Col.2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 11:15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him. Matt.28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Lurker wrote: I believe the reason our reformed and Calvinist brethren are sold on the omnipresence of God is because
I am very glad to see you post and distinguish yourself as being separate in your hypothesis and doctrine from the Reformed Church.
In previous discussions eg imputed sin et al, you have engaged in the debate from the Arminian-works based polemics.
I have found it remarkable to see that the discussions invariable split into the same old TWO doctrines which history records in many debates eg 5th century Augustine and Cassian (Semi-Pelagian).
Today the church is no different.... 1) Reformed = God is sovereign infinite omnipresent omnipotent omniscient almighty creator.
2) All other religious doctrines try in various ways to bring God down to earth - whilst promoting man to a higher position in the great scheme of things.
Omnipresence is declared and perceived in Scripture and centuries of Biblical theology has shown it to be fact. Truth does not change in time it remains constant. But there are many who read the Bible and choose a different path. Thus God has ordained it so. Thus faith the gift of God must prove itself to be OF GOD!!!
Mike wrote: Why did Gabriel say this to Zacharias? Why did he not say "I am Gabriel, and you are Zacharias, and we stand in the presence of God"? Did he not read Sproul?
"I am Calvinist and you are Arminian and we stand in the presence of God" Why is that? I guess it is because God imparts His mystery to some only. Mk 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."
John UK wrote: Well in that case, if omnipresence is right, every soul is doing that, Mac, even the ungodly, even the most ungodly, especially the most ungodly
Yes John, Omnipresence does actually mean omnipresence? So you'd better behave????? Isn't that strange????? Even your great hero John Wesley knows that simple fact [URL=http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/sermons/111/]]]Wesley on Omnipresence[/URL]
"This phrase literally refers to something that takes place in the presence of, or before the face of, God. To live coram Deo is to live oneâ€™s entire life in the presence of God, under the authority of God, to the glory of God.
To live in the presence of God is to understand that whatever we are doing and wherever we are doing it, we are acting under the gaze of God. God is omnipresent. There is no place so remote that we can escape His penetrating gaze.
To be aware of the presence of God is also to be acutely aware of His sovereignty. The uniform experience of the saints is to recognize that if God is God, then He is indeed sovereign. When Saul was confronted by the refulgent glory of the risen Christ on the road to Damascus, his immediate question was, â€śWho is it, Lord?â€ť He wasnâ€™t sure who was speaking to him, but he knew that whomever it was, was certainly sovereign over him." R.C.Sproul
The God of creation is surely OMNIPRESENT as Scripture surely teaches. Amen!
Lurker wrote: Take your strongest prooftext and convince us of your assertion with an exposition. Show us that your convictions are your own and not just on loan from your favorite doctor of systematic theology. Show us that the Holy Bible is your final authority.
Alas there appears to be no point! IT would seem that if you cannot perceive God's attribute of omnipresence-immensity-infinity-immanence in the verses of Scripture quoted, then my poor human words could never possibly take you to perceive truth.
After all you have rejected all writings, sermons and commentaries ever written as being in error, degraded or corrupt in opposition to your own vast expertise in Bible interpretation.
Your god appears to be somewhat small, bound in human attribute, both spacially and chronologically and restricted to buzzing around creation trying to get everything done by response, or arrival at the right place at the right time.
Mike wrote: Do you think God has to be everywhere at all times, in order to know everything
God does not HAVE to be anywhere. HE *IS* After all HE is the great I AM.
Lurker wrote: Your aganda is clear, McAndle, and to prove your point you will reject every proposition set forth from scripture, right?
No. No. Of course not Lurker! The Holy Spirit does not work like that with the Elect.
I do aknowledge that the Reformers the Puritans and other real Christians have written and recorded God's omnipresence. I agree with them and know by the Holy Spirit's guidance in reading Scripture, that God is omnipresent.
For example this is taken from Nave's under the heading "GOD".... "ONNIPRESENT Genesis 28:16-16 1 Kings 8:27-27 2 Chronicles 2:6-6 Psalms 139:3-3 Psalms 139:5-5 Psalms 139:7-10 Jeremiah 23:23-24 Acts 7:48-49 Acts 17:24-24 Acts 17:27-28" All these verses teach and direct those who can perceive, that GOD IS Omnipresent.
Now I have been wondering whether the reason you can't perceive this simple truth, is because you require something closer to human predilections such as the Arminian's are into? After all you appear to be very dismissive of the Biblical Calvinists.
Are you of the works based type of religious theories?
John UK wrote: explain what the following verse means with regard to 'death': For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 6:23 KJV
Thankyou John. First a present for you = [URL=http://www.carm.org/apologetics/email-and-responses/how-jesus-omnipresent]]]Have a read of this John.[/URL]
Now on "death" Two types (1) Spiritual death (2) Physical death.
"Quickening" during life on earth takes us from spiritual death to spiritual life. "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins" Eph 2.1
Also note Peter's; "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit"
Thus what the Spirit "quickened" was the flesh - not Jesus spirit.
We are born sinners as David teaches in Psalm 51. Thus we are born into a body which holds sin and death. BUT 1Cor 15.26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Take away sin = takes away death. Jesus does this.
Lurker wrote: I see where you are coming from but disagree. Have a look here. You will see that you are interpreting the verse improperly because the KJV wording is not real clear.
Mike wrote: If you look up every place the phrase "from the presence...
John UK wrote: Your response to McAndle has solved the puzzle
Not good enough fellas. I am not "interpreting improperly" I am giving you an alternative interpretation. This particular debate on this verse goes back a few centuries as Matthew Poole the puritan notes in his commentary.
The Greek can also read "who will pay the penalty eternal death/punishment from the face of the Lord and from the glory of His strength"
"Separation" or "efficient" cause???
You have gone for separation to suit the purpose of your definition of omnipresence (in hell). But I do not accept that the Lord does NOT have His presence in hell! HE is omnipresent everywhere.
Also how do you separate spiritual hell from God's power(?) hence, "and from the glory of his power;"
So NO this does not prove that omnipresence does not include hell and damnation. In fact I would say the opposite is true.
Lurker wrote: 1. No speculation, McAndle. God had the presence of mind to create a place called hell for the devil and his angels; a place or torment and outer darkness.
2. it is explicitly stated that it is a place of eternal separation from His presence. (2 Thes 1:7-10)
1. If "a place" is what you meant then why did you say it was quote; "Hell and the lake of fire *IS* God's wrath."???
2. REF:- 2Thes 1:9 9 "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"
a. Punishment is "everlasting punishment" b. From whence comes this punishment - "the presence of the Lord" c. This implies God's presence. d. On earth God uses "means" to punish, eg people or instruments or circumstance. In the spiritual realm of hell, God applies His own direct punishment upon those so judged.
Lurker wrote: Hell and the lake of fire *IS* God's wrath.
Talking about speculation Lurker, as you were above, - This theory of your's is pure speculation!!!
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH.
Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
What? God's wrath shall not prevail against the church???