s c wrote:
If my memory serves me correctly,I think that the Bible speaks of both in a verse in the NT.I'll have to look it up myself.

Truly those who have come out of Rome are less likely to glibly trust in symbolism not commanded in Scripture. Though it is a great grief to observe the hardness of men's hearts as concerns the papacy and its idolatrous practices, it is harder for me to observe it among those who hold to a greater measure of truth. But none have anything that was not given to them and of such is more required. The times in which we live in certain areas of the country in particular, it is virtually impossible not to daily confront idolatry in one form or another. Rome's influence unrestrained, whether secular or pagan affects majority practices in that nation.

s c wrote:
I'm not sure that a cross would fit into the same category as it isn't supposed to be part of the actual cross on which Christ died...
A lot of false preachers like Osteen,for instance, won't display a cross because they think that it would be offensive in speaking to the people's need for a Savior because of their sins.

Christopher000 wrote:
I would challenge anyone to go into their own church and report back that they didn't see a single cross anywhere, whether it be on the building itself, hymnals, hanging on a wall, printed on that days schedule, or whatever, wherever.

The cross was always before our 'minds eye' for what it represented in words which from the Scriptures form thoughts, giving knowledge and understanding.

I for one am not comfortable with any visible representation short of the natural creation it is not necessary and I believe introducing those things not commanded (Jim's example) of the brazen serpent was regulated for a time and purpose by God, get in time it proved a temptation.

pennned wrote:
.. the jihadists bringing Europe down as we speak will laugh at our weakness and inability to speak on behalf of the innocent....

I know that you believe in the doctrine of original sin, and actual sin, so could you explain what you mean here by innocent?

I noticed the Scripture uses the term innocent blood frequently. What would the Scripture mean when stating that?
I also notice we are not to testify against those innocent of a false accusation, like those Jezebel used against Naboth.(1 Kings 21:13)

I was thinking on these things as I was preparing my mind to prayer and was looking for the input of others, your post seemed the appropriate place.

What makes a people weak and unable to do what is right (ie speaking for the innocent?) Do all people judge what is right and wrong alike? even in the professed Church? Why or why not?

This has been a cause of grief for sometime now.

MS related that there was a certain one on SA who has 4 (did you mean5?)
lectures on Original Sin that he says is 'bad doctrine' being taught in the Church. I didn't listen, but it grieved me to read the comment. Truly these are times of great concern for the preservation of truth, concerning our duty to Christ, for He is being affronted with a flood of false teaching. Rev. 12:13-16

Bible Doctrine wrote:
Westminster Confession:-
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1030065935

Chap. 6 and 7 relevant to the strange twist on this thread.

Chapter 6
Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the Punishment thereof
2. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and so defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.
3. The being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed, and the same death in sin and corrupted nature conveyed, to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.
5. The corruption of nature, during this life doth remain in those who are regenerated; and although it be through Christ pardoned and mortified, but yet itself and all the motions thereof are truly and properly sin.
6. Every sin both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary there unto, doth in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner; whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God, the curse of the law and so made subject to death, with all miseries spiritual, temporal and eternal.

Lie Detector wrote:
..The genius of the sin nature lie: you remain in bondage to your sins, the old man remains alive and does not die, and IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT!
Perfect.

1Co 1:18-21 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching *to save them that believe.* http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=9992815038520
Dr. Sinclair Ferguson - Paul's Conversion 10/29/2010

Lurker wrote:
Hello sister Mourner. I gather you disagree your mortal body is presently "In Adam".

I remember reading in a book, regarding the history of the papacy, the phrase in Latin; translated 'whom they (cardinals) create they worship.' It would appear that is becoming questionable even among themselves.

Mystery Babylon will be cast down never to arise. Rev.17:15-18; 18:1-5

Dave's not here wrote:
..I thought it was the 4 Seasons. The group, not the hotel.

1517 wrote:
@defytyrants
How do you read Romans 13? How do you understand Christ's revelation that Christians WILL be persecuted and that we are to count it ALL JOY to suffer for his name's sake? Where in the Bible does it instruct the Christian to take the government to court?

Luke 12:9-12 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. *And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers*, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

It appears the bringing before church or state courts originates from Christ's opposers

Mike wrote:
Observe the sleight of mouth of the Energy Dept.
1. The pumpkins are weighed in pounds.
2. The municipal waste is weighed in tons. This makes the pumpkin waste sound huge. It's actually a very small percentage.
3. The pumpkin waste becomes "part of" municipal waste.
4. Municipal waste decomposes into methane.
5. Methane is a "harmful greenhouse gas that plays a part in climate change."
Note there is no actual connection between pumpkin waste and climate change, nor pumpkin waste and methane but it is implied by the way it is presented.
Climate change is normal, always has been. Energy Dept. uses the phrase in place of "global warming" because that has been shown to be politics, not science. The pumpkin issue is merely another anti-freedom step in the political goal of control. Pumpkin pie, anyone?

James Thomas wrote:
We must come to the Scriptures as a child though and not with presuppositions.

Nevertheless the remnant, in time comes to be quickened by the Spirit whether from Churched or unChurched backgrounds. It is written: Acts 2:28,29 And Ephes 2:11-14 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;