Refer back to Mark 7:4 When the Jews returned from the market they were to baptize themselves and the things they were to use before eating. The word does not mean to immerse here. The method for this baptizing is given in Numbers 19:18. A clean person shall take hyssop and dip it in the water and sprinkle it upon the tent the vessels and the persons. This sprinkling is referred to as baptism in Hebrews 9:10 as well as in Mark 7:4. This baptism is not by full immersion!
The word cannot mean only immersion. It is used in Mark 7:4. Are you saying the Jews were to wash themselves under water and also their plates, cups, tables / chairs. Rather impractical after a trip to the market. Surely it means to sprinkle as with the blood on the hyssop branch as described in Numbers 19:18. The same Greek word is used.
The words "divers washings" is the same Greek word so many of you say can only mean immersion. Check your Greek. It is also used in the Greek translations of the Hebrew OT. (eg Num 19: 17-18 and Lev 16:14). Use scripture to define the meanings of words.
Yamil the question I asked was do you pray for God to bring the person to repentance and to justify them or do you pray for them to bring themselves to God. Secondly do you know your prayer will be answered in that all you pray for will be saved? I do not know any more than you do who God will draw to Himself.
Yamil, when you pray for someone to come to know the Lord Jesus Christ, do you ask that the Holy Spirit would convict them of sin; that the Holy Spirit would show the person his need; that God would bring people to help the person meet God; that God would bring the person to a saving knowledge or do you pray that the person would do it all in his own strength by his own will and conviction?
JD sounds to me as if you are in a denominational church of independent baptists similar to the congregational churches. You have a system of basic doctrine that must be adhered to and some rules on fellowship with other believers.
Also Abigail Jesus does promise the fires of hell to those who do not believe.
RV, I also have noted this. The anti-Calvin mob do not show any respect to the scripture quoted by those who believe John Calvin was correct in his understanding of the scriptures. Jesus himself said that He came to save those whom the Father had given him.
How do you know John Calvin never gave a testimony? Were you there with him? Many things are not recorded. It does not mean they never happened. Some protestants believe in re-generational baptism -eg the Church of Christ has this written in their doctrine I've been told. If one's doctrine is faulty but they trust in the work and salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ, I believe they will be saved. Just as children do not fully understand but can believe. Is any one of us perfect in understanding God?
yes Murray. By their standards Paul could not have been a Christian because he was complicit in the killing of early Christians. We are all sinners and all need the faith and righteousness of Christ to be saved.
Thanks RK. It seems a bit harsh for the anti-calvin mob to convict a man for obeying the methods of punishment used by state. From all I understand Servetus was convicted of heresy - a crime against the state. John Calvin was simply restating the joy found by Augustine and taught by the apostle Paul. Later it was discovered in Scripture by Luther and the 16th/ 17th century reformers that our salvation is all of a sovereign God who gives us faith and grace and justifies those He calls. Let's praise Him.
kevin wrote: On October 27, 1553 John Calvin had Michael Servetus, the Spanish physician, burned at the stake just outside of Geneva for his doctrinal heresies. What great claim to fame has this Michael Servetus? Many were killed during that time often for minor, in our view, disagreements. I keep reading on this site about this event. Can someone please fill in the history. I understood his views of the trinity were faulty.
Folk often bring up John Calvin and Michael Servetus when trying to discredit John Calvin. I've heard of the latter often but all I've heard of Servetus, is that he was teaching false doctrine on the trinity. Why is he held in such high regard? They were cruel times in the 16th century.
Why are the Baptist believers so condemning of those who believe God is sovereign in all things? Not all Baptist - there are many who understand this truth.
Yamil I did answer your question. He gave enough. We are not given a scale to work from as in $, kg, or whatever. He simply gives enough as He sees fit.
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12/29/07 9:58 PM
