Another Michael wrote: ...are you saying saving faith (regeneration before faith) is the work of the Gospel?
Salvation/regeneration is always and only a work of the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Word/Gospel.
Another Michael wrote: From what Calvinist have told meâ€¦ totally incapable of hearing the Gospel
If they have ears, they can hear. If they're literate, they can read. But, they are incapable of truly believing without the Holy Spirit quickening them to the truth.
Another Michael wrote: ...whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved...
Amen! Praise the LORD! But, "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?" (vs 14) So we see that only those who have faith (believe) will call on Him.
Don't overcomplicate this. The Gospel is proclaimed. The lost man hears/reads the Gospel. The Holy Spirit quickens the man's heart causing faith to spring up. The man - now believing - calls out to God in repentance and faith. Doesn't seem that difficult to me.
Another Michael wrote: ...it is simply not writtenâ€¦ select limited number might believe
It also doesn't say that the power of God unto salvation is l
Ok. That is a far cry from regeneration before hearing the Gospel - which is what your earlier claim was.
Yes, I believe that regeneration precedes faith, BUT in this regard: Regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit in the life of an individual whereby the person is brought to saving faith. From the standpoint of the one who is saved, regeneration and faith are SIMULTANEOUS. But, saving faith would not have occurred had the Holy Spirit not moved in the heart of the individual. "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:44)
It seems that the order of salvation is always important to those who hold the "traditional" view and much ink has been spilled back and forth. But for me, the main point of contention is the work of Jesus on the cross. What did Jesus accomplish when He died on the cross? Why did He die? Those are the questions I set I to find when I was first saved in a Freewill Baptist Church. And the answers I discovered are what led me to believe in the doctrines of grace.
"I know that if I love You You must have loved me first" - Josiah Conder
Another Michael wrote: Connor 7, please do think carefully I really don't think it is safe nor wise to mess around with Scripture and make it out like the Gospel isn't the power of God for Salvation ... the what really is the Power of God for Salvation is Regeneration before and independent of hearing the Gospel and believing God, independent of any personal repentance and trust in God, any calling upon His name - Romans is full of this stuff
Where has anyone here stated anything resembling any of this stuff? I know that I haven't read every post, but I know of no one here who thinks that salvation and regeneration can come prior to or independent of hearing (or reading) the Gospel (or apart from the work of the Holy Spirit).
The reformed (Calvanist) and traditional views are two differing views that deal with the issues of:
1. God's sovereignty 2. The nature of sin and the effects of the fall 3. The nature, intent, and extent of Christ's atonement. 4. The cause of God's predestination and election. 5. Probably about a dozen other things that aren't coming to mind at 11:30 at night.
I remember you telling me about yall working up this way. It is beautiful country. I hope you can make it back someday.
Good to see you posting. Our church packs shoe boxes as well. As I understand it, the shoe boxes are always accompanied by the Gospel message. I often wonder how much of an impact they actually make, but you never know. "...it may be that the LORD will work for us: for there is no restraint to the LORD to save..." (1Sam14:6). If you and your husband ever wander back through Middle TN, look me up.
Thanks for your response. Let me see if I can clarify my position. I am a member of an SBC church. There are members of our church who believe as I do. There are also members who believe in the "traditional view" (for lack of a better term). We discuss our differences and argue our views in a civil manner, but at the end of the day, we love each other and treat each other respectfully. I have great respect for those "traditionalist" brethren, especially those who have been walking with God for many, many years. Those folks have been a great source of encouragement and support to me. I expect to spend eternity in heaven with them.
Now, I know that Calvanists seem to have a reputation for being arrogant and argumentative. This is not entirely without reason. I must admit to being guilty of that myself - more often than I care to admit. But I don't know of any Calvanists who want to force the "traditionalists" out of the SBC. However, it seems to me that that is the express purpose of Connect316. That was what I was trying to point out.
I'm about out of space, but let me finish by saying that I'm not aware of anyone in the reformed baptist camp who believes that salvation comes apart from the preaching of God's word and the work of the Holy Spirit.
Another Michael wrote: Christopher000 Came across IMHO a good article Remember Scripture tells us examine everything carefully/prove all things and hold fast to that which is good http://sbctoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/A-Statement-of-Traditional-Southern-Baptist-Soteriology-SBC-Today.pdf
For the record, this document is the foundational statement for [URL=http://connect316.net/the-statement/]]]"Connect 316"[/URL] - a group of SBC pastors, leaders, etc. who hold to "traditional Southern Baptist" soteriology (whether or not "traditional" is a misnomer or not is debateable). They would like to revise the current doctrinal confession of the SBC (the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message) in order to exclude those of us who hold to the doctrines of sovereign grace (aka. Calvinism).
Mike wrote: Chris, there was a Graham quote from 50 years ago in which he felt infant baptism meant something. Come to think of it, it was a lot fewer than that number of years ago, I believed it, too. Hope I'm not quoted on it as a way to discredit everything else I've ever said or done.
Good morning, Bro. Christopher, and thanks for asking. I meant to post something on here yesterday, but time got away from me. According to the reports that I've read, the rally in Shelbyville went on as planned, but the one in Murfreesboro (where my cousin and her family live) was called off. There was no reported violence, but there was one person arrested. Thank God for answered prayer.
I would like to request prayer for Middle Tennessee this weekend. Several white supremacy groups are planning "white lives matter" rallys () in Murfreesboro and Shelbyville on Saturday. No doubt, antifa () will be there as well. I have family members who live in Murfreesboro, and I am praying for their safety. I find this whole thing heartbreaking.
John Yurich USA wrote: ...And that is exactly what I did...
Yep. What you did.
Unfortunately for you, Christianity isn't about what you did. It's about what Jesus did. You can keep on doing, John, but your false assurance, self-justification, and will worship are going to send you to hell. Repent and believe the gospel.
Mike wrote: From the news: You see, professor flooding expert thinks the folks who get flooded annually need more awareness of flood risks. Now they can know for certain that when flood comes, they can be aware of it. Good thing to have a flood expert to enlighten the great unwashed.