JD are we reading the same Bible. The last book in mine is called " The Revelation of Saint John the Divine" Where do I read the book called the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
In many countries there are no western style missionaries or pastors but christians minister one to another. The web and radio are also very valuable tools in reaching the unsaved.
JD this is not the thread for discussing the revelation of John.
WOMI, not every definition in the world. Look again at Mark 7:4 this passage uses the same word in the Greek to describe the OT washings. How to perform these washings is set out in the OT and describes them as sprinkling with water or blood as the case may be. Why would you suppose that God would instigate a practice in baptism that would be impossible for many to obey? In jail, in a sick bed, at certain places on this planet it would be impossible to immerse someone. This being the case and following on from OT practices I firmly believe sprinkling is the mode to be used.
Can you explain why putting a full stop after me makes the difference you state. No man can enter the room, except someone opens the door: and then he can sit at the table. I've changed the words to a simple statement. The grammatical form is the same. John 6:44 puts the Father as the someone doing the action.
Murray you are the only one to answer. It is a serious query. Does anyone know the history or reason why most protestant and baptist churches do not use wine and unleavened bread for communion. Surely this was what Jesus was using when He instigated the sacrament.
A second query: Why do many Baptist churches allow children (often quite young and with no profession of faith or baptism) to partake at the communion service. I have been told it is because they are members of the visible church.
Can someone explain to me why most protestant/baptist churches do not use wine and unleavened bread for communion. Surely this was what Jesus was using when He instigated the sacrament.
Derek, I couldn't agree more "It just seems to me that circumcision could not be an end-all to whether someone was saved, and so too is baptism. It has no effect on someone's eternal destination." So why is the amount of water so very important? It has to do with identification with the believers on earth and in that sense our children are included. They were taken out with the exodus from Egypt and included as part of the household of faith.
Murray in your mind what does "does this mean we baptise them, with all that that implies?" What does it imply? You've said yourself that baptism doesn't help in their salvation in any way.
No WOMI, but I can see God leading me and guiding me for a long period of time before making Himself known to me. I found Him in scripture where He was revealing himself to me. He led me to a knowledge of my sinfulness and of a need to repent and to be led by Him. He is still showing me areas where I don't come up to mark and will continue to do so till the day I die and go to be with him.
Murray how about the Scriptures that tell us a spouse is sanctified by the believing spouse and that the children of believers are holy 1Cor 7:14. It does not say saved but holy. Surely that makes them members of the church body on earth. Otherwise we would leave them at door or at home. They belong in the church until God either calls them to Himself or they go the way of the sinful world.
DB"Immersion is never proved in Scripture. Because the quantity of water is never stipulated anywhere." Why do some churches insist on immersion then? Some on this site seem to say baptism is essential for our salvation. I thought it was a sign that we are members of the visible church.
JD you used the examples of going down into the red sea at the exodus and the flood to prove that immersion must be the form of baptism we use. In both cases those immersed in the water were not saved. DB using Rom 6: 1-6 raises the question of why we don't use dirt to symbolize being buried. Jesus was however not put into a grave as we know it. He was placed in a cave wrapped in cloth. How does this show full immersion under water?
No WOMI Haven't you heard that faith comes through hearing the Word of God. Timothy was taught the things of God as a child by his mother and grandmother.
JD you are wrong. I did come to faith through the reformed faith. A faithful minister, who has now passed on to glory, gave me my early training and another known well for his reformed beliefs led me to the Lord Jesus Christ. Since then the Holy Spirit has taught and guided me through good times and bad with His word. I can testify that "I was blind but now I see". Every part of the journey has been at God's direction.
JD, I guess you are correct "The sad fact of this forum is that all the reformed here were at one time something else. " Yes we were at one time unsaved but now by God's grace we are saved. However I for one would not call it a sad fact but rather a joy filled fact.
Michael I'm not saying Jesus was not immersed but that this verse does not say He was. It is not a proof text. Likewise with Philip and the eunuch. It does not say immersion was the method. If it was both Philip and the eunuch were under the water as both went down into the water.
Michael, Near us is a park in a hollow. We go down into the park and sometimes even go down into the creek to paddle. Then we come up out of the creek and up out of the park. At no time do we get covered in soil or in water. Jesus went down into the water and was baptized and then He came up out of the water and the Holy Spirit came on to Him as a dove. This does not teach full immersion.
1/15/08 10:20 PM
1/7/08 11:48 PM
