John UK wrote:
I guess he has a 50% chance of getting the right answer. But I'm not a betting man, so I won't bet on it.

Dinger wrote:
You see John (& Biblicist)
Here is the problem about the Eunuch pool.
Baptists need the pool to be of sufficient depth to support their theory on immersion.
Presby's don't! We just accept the Bible as it is written.
We do not add to the Bible to match our denominational hypothesis.
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, IF ANY MAN SHALL ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book" Rev 22:18

Do you suppose that you are a better Presbyterian than Calvin? How is it that Calvin could concede to the Baptists that the ancients performed the rite by immersion but YOU cannot?! And you say you have no vested interest!! You make me laugh. You are a joke.

How is it you cannot see what Calvin saw? Who is blind, you or Calvin? Who is wrong, you or Calvin?

Michael Hranek wrote:
Kenny
Biblicist
Jim Lincoln
I WAS SAVE USING THE NASB.
Now there is a whole lot more to the story than that....Since God mercifully saw fit to allow me to "first" learn of Him in the NASB I have a huge difficulty condemning all non-KJV translations as corrupt or outright Satanic or those who choose to use them.

You are missing the point. People are saved in many different ways. My initial interest in Christian things was through Billy Graham. By your reasoning then I should not now condemn Graham even though I know how far he has compromised and travelled down the road to Rome etc.

God may in his sovereignty be pleased to use all manner of instruments to bring people to Christ. His using those instruments is not his approval of it!!

I don't like Jim's reference to "scholarly" in reference to the attack on the KJV as though those in support of it cannot possibly be "scholarly". This kind of elitist view is reprehensible.

Dinger wrote:
Baptist perception can see beyond Scripture to such mundane matters like water depth.
So could you tell me just how deep this pool was 2000 years ago?

Its the Presbys who read in what they cannot find in the NT. Show me just one clear case of infant baptism in the NT.

And if sprinkling is the right mode, why use the word Baptizo? For that matter why make constant mention of the amount of water, if all that was required is a bit of spit?! Why do we not read that the Apostles took a bit of water in a basin to the candidates? Why did the candidate have to come to the water? Why mention rivers and not basins? Why for that matter insist that the imagery refers to death and resurrection?

Read Calvin on this place. On verse 38 "They went down into the water" he writes:

"Here we see the rite used among the men of old time in baptism; for they put all the body into the water."!!

SteveR wrote:
The theme of thread is the loss of Covenant children to the world of unbelief.

SteveR wrote:
Maybe we can learn from our chidren? Do we listen?

Hidemi Williges wrote:
What!? Not again!

Hidemi Williges wrote:
Out of curiosity, is Lundy Island a real part of the UK?

down and up wrote:
God bless you brethren-a comment re: Aenon would be good.

Hidemi Williges wrote:
Very good points. Also an oasis could be possible or just a miracle by the Lord.

All his writings on this subject are worthy of careful study.

You will find them on:

Guinness wrote:
I'm not Presby.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Jim Lincoln
If you have the time and don't mind to please email me.
I was saved during a time when I was using a NAS and although I have used the KJV it has never set right with my conscience to be an KJVOnlyist.

Don't be taken in by Jim's post.

You should listen to the lectures by Malcolm Watts (representative for the Trinitarian Bible Soc. in England) on the issue of the preservation of God's word. They are crystal clear and very helpful. BTW The TBS is not KJV only, despite the inaccurate accusations!

Guinness wrote:
Sadly this is not just the hallmark of fundamentalist churches.
You need to be most beware of dictatorialism when there is a subtle facade of biblical order and due process. Expect biblical due process to cease the moment someone speaks an awkward truth.

In reality the Presby courts are even more dictatorial than any Baptist pastor. At least in Independent churches the pastor can be removed by the people. Try doing that in a Presby church and you'll soon feel the weight of the entire court system descend on you.

If you want an insight into dictatorialness in Presby. circles from a couple of Presbys. then read:

[URL=http://www.trinityfoundation.org/PDF/255_Inquisitions_Confessionals_Courts.pdf]]] Inquisitions, confessions or courts [/URL]

[URL=http://www.trinityfoundation.org/PDF/277-Imperious_Presbyterianism_Reed.pdf]]] Imperious Presbyterianism [/URL]

Do also remember the failure of the court system in the now infamous case of Professor McCleod and the Free Church of Scotland.

down and up wrote:
Acts 8: 38, 39 note 'they went down both into the water' and 'they were (both) come up out of the water' No proof of immersion...

Some sugest that 'pouring and sprinklng' is the primary meaning of the word here. If true, the fallacy of this comes to light when we ask the same question, except this time we replace the word 'immerse' with 'pour'.

down and up wrote:
Scriptural proof please and BTW what about the elderly frail sick convert-does he get Baptised even on a death bed or not?

John UK

If you have the time to read, then also have a go at:

[URL=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7Riz_ljVQMQC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=John+Gill,+Jewish+Proselyte+baptism&source=bl&ots=4bUI-xz1dS&sig=fnJTy7Luoh9dMdCSC-xAKxlc-rE&hl=en&ei=bHRWSr7wE96OjAekwpzWAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6]]] Infant Baptism and the Covenant of Grace by Paul K Jewett[/URL]

John UK wrote:
This book should be in our homes, alongside The Anabaptist Story, by William Estep, the old classic, The Martyr's Mirror, and of course, E. H. Broadbent's The Pilgrim Church."
Wow! I must get hold of a copy! Sounds like it's right up my street, bro! Thanks for the recommendation. Amen!

I would also highly recommend the other books mentioned.

Presbyfacts wrote:
BTW FPC Scotland ..

John UK wrote:
I'm also going to be studying the life and times of anabaptists in history.

Neil wrote:
These days though, the real problem is toleration of heresy within churches (whether Presby or Baptist). Pastors can teach any stupid thing they like, and rarely be held to account for it.

I agree with what you are driving at, but sadly such comments only play into the hands of the Prebys who hate independency as much as they do the notion that baptism means immersion.

John UK wrote:
Wherever you folks find synods in the Bible I'll never know.......

Perhaps we should discuss Prebyterianism as a persecuting force, even denying liberty of conscience to fellow believers, and especially to any Baptists! Quite a religion this! But, nothing to do with the one established by Christ!! Hence their imprecations are not merely verbal; they seek to carry them out literally using the civil arm (viz. the Magistrates)!

Presbyfacts wrote:
1] If you try using an intelligent reading of these debates you may manage to find that the question was following my discussion with John.

Presbyfacts wrote:
2] God's Covenant of Grace is actually important in Scripture and to His elect children.

Presbyfacts wrote:
3] Simple! Christ changed the sign and seal of His Covenant with His people.
Previously it was circumcision. Christ changed the OT sign to Baptism.