Christopher000 wrote: Ha-ha...I noticed further down that I guess my last name is OBrian now. Must have pressed the letter instead of a zero and autocomplete gave me a hearty Irish name. Ok since I'm Irish/Italian anyway, so that worked out. I've really enjoyed the conversation and learned a lot...thanks to all. I'm out.
Hmmm... I would have pegged you as a Rowengartner. Or maybe:
I have been working my way slowly (very, very slowly) through a book that Bro. Observer recommended to me about a year and a half ago on the book of Revelation. One of the things that has stood out to me (though I already knew it) is that we are in a spiritual battle against foes (the world, the flesh, and the devil) whose sole motivation is the destruction of Christ and His church. And why should we be surprised? Did not God say it would be this way? "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." (Gen. 3:15)
So we have an enemy who is relentless and ruthless. "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Rev. 12:17)
But we have an omni-competent Savior. "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God." (Rev. 19:11-13)
John Yurich USA wrote: You sure have got some nerve...
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 KJV (13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The only ones who should be anxious to be in the presence of the LORD are those who are unprepared. Those who are saved are eager to see Him.
John Yurich USA wrote: Now why would you not want to die young instead of living to be 100 years old?
Spoken like one who has no hope.
John, those who have eternal life understand that there is something better than this life.
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:6-8 KJV)
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. (1John 4:10)
Good morning, SA brethren! I don't know why I woke up so early this morning. I don't have to go to work in the rhinestone mines today, so I wanted to sleep in. Oh well. Maybe I'll saddle up the ol' Skeeter an make a visit to my buddy C3-O. I'll bet he could use a little cheering up, and nothing cheers folks up more than having me finally go home after an unannounced, lengthy visit.
John, I know how cold your feet get in the winter, so I got you some pajamas with the feet in them. I figured that would do the trick, but the Skeeter's just not ready for trans-atlantic flight right now, it being nearly hibernating season and what not.
I wanted to visit US this weekend, but he's going to be busy raking leaves. If he would move to Arizona he wouldn't have that problem. Of course he might also miss out on the awesome demonstration of God's faithfulness - the changing of the seasons.
I was worried about Bro. Dave. I heard that they found him on the ground having been hit by a giant meteorite. But then he sat up and they realized it was just his nose. Whew! What a relief.
Kev wrote: I agree with everything you said there Bro Rodney and itâ€™s great to hear some great thought on the Bible and God. That cheered me up . I should say that Godâ€™s love is conditional only on Himself and flows through His Son. Everything that is nessisary for Godâ€™s love is given by Him. Such as faith and love and His love for us is being in His Son which He performs through faith these are the conditions and He supplies them by His Sovereign Grace and not the person. Hope that makes my beliefs a little clearer.
Hey, Bro. Kev!
I didn't think you meant it the way it came across. Sometimes, it is hard to express ourselves correctly when we are going back and forth on this medium. It's easy to be misunderstood.
Kev wrote: The answer really is simple John. You ask what I would tell someone if they ask about Godâ€™s love. That is easily answered by scripture: John 14 21 He that HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEPETH THEM, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me SHALL BE LOVED OF THE FATHER, AND I WILL LOVE HIM, and will manifest myself to him. Notice and it says and I will love him and shall be loved of the Father?. That means that love is conditional...
Perhaps it would be better to say that those who have His commandments and keep them bear witness to the fact that they are loved of the Father. God's love is never conditional on the response of the object(s) of His love. However, I agree with your main point, Bro. Kev - God's efficacious love is not universally applied to every human without exception.
John UK wrote: Thanks Kev One thing is sure, God demonstrates his unconditional love to sinners, and it is good to tell them that.
Amen! This is an excellent way to preach the gospel - declare God's love for sinners demonstrated by His death on the cross. But leave it to the Holy Spirit to appropriate that truth to the INDIVIDUAL. IE- We have no basis to tell people that God loves THEM PERSONALLY.
Kev wrote: ...how the Greek word Kosmos ie world is used...
A couple of thoughts concerning Romans 5:6 -
"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." (Romans 5:6)
First, to whom is this addressed if not believers? "For when WE were without strength..." And in verse eight: "But God commendeth his love toward US, in that, while WE were yet sinners, Christ died for US."
Second, it doesnâ€™t appear to me (and I acknowledge that I could be wrong about this) that the Greek text includes the definite article "the" in verse six. Certainly not every translation includes it:
Literal Translation of the Holy Bible by Jay P. Green, Sr. - "for we yet being without strength, in due time Christ died for ungodly ones."(Romans 5:6 LITV)
[URL=https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=6170716116]]]Here[/URL] is an interesting sermon by Jim Elliot. He makes the point that the gospel message (directed to unbelievers) proclaimed by the apostles centered around the resurrection of Christ.
Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense salvation includes regeneration, justification, sanctification, and glorification. There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord.
A. Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.
Repentance is a genuine turning from sin toward God. Faith is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and commitment of the entire personality to Him as Lord and Saviour.
B. Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal upon principles of His righteousness of all sinners who repent and believe in Christ. Justification brings the believer unto a relationship of peace and favor with God.
C. Sanctification is the experience, beginning in regeneration, by which the believer is set apart to God's purposes, and is enabled t
I understand your argument because I used to believe the same thing - except that I also thought that a believer could lose his salvation. I took me about a year and a half of diligently studying the scriptures and weighing the evidence to convince me that my presuppositions were wrong. That is the problem with a forum like this. I've yet to see anyone radically change their sotierology based on something someone posted in 1300 characters or less.
I would recommend that you read some of the works of the reformers. Weigh what they say against Scripture. (I would say the same about other writtings as well. Read what the liberals write. The Wesleyans. The Campbellites. The dispensationalists. The Pentecostals. Charles Finney. See what they say. What if they are right? Check what they say against Scripture. Observe their hermeneutics. My beliefs have been shaped by reading all of these.)
You still haven't answered my initial objection concerning Connect316. We aren't going to get anywhere trying to go point by point. Our minds are made up. However, I would love an explanation of why you chose to reference an article posted by a group with seemingly divisive agenda. Why?
I'm doing well. Thanks for asking. I pray that things are good for you too.
I think you and I have something different in mind when we refer to the sovereignty of God. I define God's sovereignty as His absolute ability to control everything (people, places, events, etc.) from the greatest to the most minute. God's will cannot be thwarted nor His purposes frustrated. For He said, "I will work, and who shall let (prevent) it?" (Is 43:13)
In Acts 4:24, the church prayed, " Lord, thouÂ artÂ God...". The word "LORD" is the Greek word "despoteĚ„s" from which we get our word "despot." A despot does as he pleases (Ps 115:3). He owes no explanations (Job 40:2). He takes counsel from noone (Is 40:13-14).
Unfortunately, the "traditional" view has a god who WANTS to save sinners but CAN'T because his will is trumped by man's. That doesn't sound like sovereignty to me.
You never addressed my original concern. The folks at Connect316 seem to be actively working to eradicate those of us who believe in sovereign grace from the SBC. Why is that? And what can be done about it? Or do you support their efforts in that regard?
Frank wrote: Now see I was trying to be very serious and now you made me smile. I did have to actually visualize the 3 rights. From now on it will simply be very very. See that was humor that I couldn't misunderstand for sarcasm. "You" are not on my ignore list!