Pastor Andrew Webb wrote:
I think a certain degree of overthinking

Franklin Graham ended his prayer in Jesus name the transcript of the convention prepared by the RNC *actually dropped the reference* and inserted simply "Amen."

as for overthinking- sure, the topic is better focus with this link:
[URL=http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=10367]]]Should 'Jesus' Name' Be Scratched From Public Prayers?[/URL]

The issue flared prominently at Bush's 2001 inauguration, when evangelist Franklin Graham, the son of Billy Graham, ended his invocation "in the name of the Father, and of the son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."

Some were offended, saying the prayer excluded non-Christians, but Graham defends his right to pray as he does.

"I'm not belittling a Jew or a Muslim or someone else because I ... pray in the name of the one who died for my sins," he said on ABC's "Nightline" in March.
............
But some Christians argue that the Bible instructs them to pray in Jesus' name and that censoring their prayers violates their religious
freedom .

Jim Lincoln wrote:
Ecumenical Bible
evidence[/URL]

Mat 6:13 "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: FOR THINE IS THE KINGDOM, AND THE POWER, AND THE GLORY, FOR EVER. AMEN."

One of the most notable differences between the Catholic bible versions and the Protestant Reformation Bibles has been the ending of what is commonly referred to as the Lord's Prayer. These last words: in all caps above are found in the vast Majority of all Greek texts, as well as in four copies of the Old Latin (k,f, g, and q), which predates anything we have in Greek. All these words are also found in the ancient Syriac Peshitta, Harkelian, Curetonian, and Palestinian, as well as the Coptic Boharic and Sahidic, the Georgian, Armenian, Slavonian, and Ethiopian ancient versions. In fact, of over 1000 Greek manuscripts that contain this section of Matthew's gospel, these words are found in all but 10 manuscripts. Dean Burgon mentions emphatically the 100 to one ratio in favor of the King James reading.

Not a 'lot of evidence', but a lot of confusion-

savedbygrace wrote:
John Jay, America's chief justice

Consider what the following signers of the Constitution DID
-Charles Pinckney and John Langdon—founders of the American Bible Society; James McHenry—founder of the Baltimore Bible Society; Rufus King—helped found a Bible society for Anglicans; Abraham Baldwin—a chaplain in the Revolution and considered the youngest theologian in America; Roger Sherman, William Samuel Johnson, John Dickinson, and Jacob Broom—also theological writers; James Wilson and William Patterson—placed on the Supreme Court by President George Washington, they had prayer over juries in the U. S. Supreme Court room; this does not include the huge number of thoroughly evangelical Christians who signed the Declaration or who helped frame the Bill of Rights.

rogerant wrote:
confessing Deists.

None of the notable Founders fit this description.
[URL=http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=105]]]Madison and Religion in Public [/URL]

[URL=http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=121]]]The Founders And Public Religious Expressions [/URL]
[URL=http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=127]]]George Washington WAS a Christian[/URL]

[URL=http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=98]]]Franklin’s Appeal for Prayer at the Constitutional Convention[/URL]

[URL=http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=81]]]Thomas Paine Criticizes the Current Public School Science Curriculum [/URL]

Portrayal of Founders as deists is inaccurate.Dearborne, Charles Lee,or Ethan Allen would fit.

could logically argue

that this use is

by

the

very

nature

of the

usage,

anything other than

"A mark of the beast".

Mike wrote:
The question remains

and
The pastor's prayer ending infuriated those who end their prayers in the name of Barack Hussein Obama.

For Thine is the kingdom, etc. - this last sentence is omitted by NU Text, by all the modern translations except MKJV, NKJV, LITV.On what basis? Only Aleph, B, Z and D of the uncials omit the doxology, joined by Tertullian, the Italic and Vulgate versions, and Cyprian and Origen of the early Fathers. Yet thousands of mss. have it, and nearly all the 2nd century versions except the Old Latin. The fathers, the Didache, Apostolic Constitutions, of the same century, have it. Not only that, but Burgon displays the Greek of Matt. 6:13 with 2 Tim. 4:18 under it, proving that the apostle Paul knew and approved of the wording of the doxology, and also that his words show that he understood evil (ponerou) to be generic, covering all varieties of evil, not just the evil one. Burgon also shows that Aleph, B, and D do not have the same words, but disagree among themselves at this place.

Jim Lincoln wrote:
I doubt if Reformed Jews know their Bible any better than Mainline Protestants, so they would be oblivious to the Dothan reference.

Bolivian wrote:
Please no machismo.

and then
after
and only after
they've
shown themselves
to
have
a decent
record....
say,
2 or 3 years..

they could drive at the posted
speed limit.

"One of the most notable differences between the Catholic bible versions and the Protestant Reformation Bibles has been the ending of what is commonly referred to as the Lord's Prayer. These last words: "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen" are found in the vast Majority of all Greek texts, as well as in four copies of the Old Latin (k,f, g, and q), which predates anything we have in Greek. All these words are also found in the ancient Syriac Peshitta, Harkelian, Curetonian, and Palestinian, as well as the Coptic Boharic and Sahidic, the Georgian, Armenian, Slavonian, and Ethiopian ancient versions. In fact, of over 1000 Greek manuscripts that contain this section of Matthew's gospel, these words are found in all but 10 manuscripts. Dean Burgon mentions emphatically the 100 to one ratio in favor of the King James reading"

hidemi williges wrote:
not many Churches do this.

And if you have a copy of the NASB
read the version in the entirety of its history. This polite commentary from
[URL=http://www.preservedword.com/article.php?id=114]]]NASB Committee Member Frank Logsdon[/URL]
to NASB Readers--
Frank Logsdon wrote the preface to the New American Standard Bible,based on his work back to 1956-57, this tame article does supplement the Preface, people should print it out append it to their NASBs.

One of my Authorised Bibles includes the AV preface, and no one on the Authorised Bible project came out later to denounce it, which is why it is still going strong after almost 400 years - "principle, good" translation
-
they endeavored to make ONE principle translation- to make
ONE that was...
"better, or out of many good ones, one principal good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark.”
and I think they hit the mark!

And a few partial context... for fun
Rom 11:25"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant..."
1Co 10:1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant...
1Th 4:13"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,....."

My pastor always mentions that heresy flows from ignorant brethren, mentioned in 1Th 4:13.

We ought to be reading thru the Bible at least once a year, aside from other studies.. It never gets old, and is always useful.

2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Hard to avoid verbal mistakes in this campaign-- in the same way..

[URL=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2774494/Sarah-Palin-was-target-of-Barack-Obamas-Lipstick-on-a-pig-jibe-says-McCain-camp.html]]]Sarah Palin was target of Barack Obama's 'Lipstick on a pig' jibe, says McCain camp
[/URL]
Obama does seem given to flip comments.
Maybe the Obama camp will excuse this
new one about prettified porkers as
due to the fact that Obama was raised as a Moslem--
so he thinks of pigs as 'unclean' at a
more visceral level than most
and attended mosque with his stepdad
where women were probably condemned for use of cosmetics.

This would be an easy way to get him off the hook for snide remarks about Sarah as a woman....

["Is this kind of public role what most women want? Clearly not, and for that I am honestly thankful. The tasks assigned to women within the home are monumental. The maternal role is crucial, and the vast majority of women find their greatest fulfillment in this role -- and for good reason. In the roles of wives and mothers women do what no one else can do so naturally and so well."
"Still, there is something to give us all pause in this picture, and those who care for the future of the family should take note and think hard."]

I like Palin, and don't want to be negative about her candidacy because of rotten things leftists are saying, but still, there's the questiton of conservatives would say were a Dem in her same family situation?

Palin's testimony, prayer habits,Pro-life courage,speaking out for Creation's fair time presentation,
upholding rights to bear arms, fiscal policy, etc. on top of her charisma &
intelligence are SO appealing!

re ref. post of over 3 hours ago (9/9/08 1:44 PM)
you concede that "the 10 northern tribes were ARMED"
&
NOWHERE in 1Kings12 does it mention that they
-dropped their-
arms in rebellion or even in preparation for an attack by Rehoboam.

Just when do you think they disarmed themselves during the rebellion?

you have 3 more points you are avoiding still:
Despite your pathetic,desperate eisegesis, reading INTO it that ALL 10 tribes of Israelites were
disARMED-
DO you really think
that every one of the 10 tribes was unarmed during the rebellion?

1. "and made him king over all Israel"
King means ruler of their armies
very clear

2. 180,000 troops were called out to quell this rebellion
(you have major eisegesis to read into this that they were wasting this deployment against unarmed men)

3."Ye shall not go up, nor
fight against
your brethren "

no eisegesis allowed :
NOT "Ye shall not go up, nor
slaughter, or arrest
your
unarmed
brethren"

1 KIN 15:6 "And there was war between Rehoboam and Jeroboam all the days of his life."

Get a copy of
[URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_prodinfo.asp?PID=am11405211851]]]The First Blast of the Trumpet against the Monstrous Regiment of Women by John Knox [/URL]
here on SA

or also listen to

[URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=112071217340]]]The Monstrous Regiment of Women by Swanson[/URL] [QUOTE]What can we say when women rule in the family, the church, and the state?We can tell you what God thinks in Isaiah 3:12.Or we could tell you what the reformer, John Knox thought about it. And that's precisely what Colin Gunn does in his award winning film,'The Monstrous Regiment of Women.'It may have won the most politically-incorrect film of the day,but then again, that's what Mary Queen of Scots thought about the Knox tome.The subject is far more relevant and incendiary today than ever before.Don't miss this historical interview with the producer of the Best of Festival winner ...

DJC49 wrote:
1 KIN 15:6 "And there was war between Rehoboam and Jeroboam all the days of his life."
I thought that according to 1Kings 12:24 that Rehoboam held off from attacking Israel?

Despite your pathetic,desperate eisegesis, reading INTO the text that ALL 10 tribes of Israelites were
UNARMED-
I will again ask if you really think
that every one of the 10 tribes was unarmed?
talk about eisegesis!
"yeah they were pacifists' :
1. "and made him king over all Israel"
King means ruler of their armies
very clear
2. 180,000 troops were called out to quell this rebellion
(you have major eisegesis to read into this that they were wasting this deployment against unarmed men)

3."Ye shall not go up, nor
fight against
your brethren "

no eisegesis allowed :
NOT "Ye shall not go up, nor
slaughter, or arrest
your
unarmed
brethren"

thanks especially for your (cough) insightful "Ehud in Judges 3; Elijah in I Kings 18; II Chronicles 23 had SPIRITUAL significance and are "
[note the pronouncement -pure eisegeis by Pope DCJ49]
NOT
to be interpreted as God sanctioning man-centered rebellion "

DJC49 wrote:
post it out right here on this forum ... where it states explicitly (or even implicitly) that "the 10 northern tribes took up arms in their rebellion against Rehoboam."

Moonwalker wrote:
while you're judging the authenticity of Obama's faith, I question yours as well!

YOUR MOONwalker pseudonym
ref. to the
[URL=http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp]]]MOON GOD[/URL]
of his cult of Mohammadans.
shows you to be on Obama's payroll.

And I base that on the type of posts and the facts that

[URL=http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=66167]]]Nation of Islam activists on Obama camp payroll[/URL]
Sen. Barack Obama employed and continues to employ senior staffers who belong to the Nation of Islam, and the presidential candidate has some "worrying" ties to the controversial group headed by Louis Farrakhan, a former key Obama insider told WND.
The former insider, who spoke on condition of anonymity, expressed particular concern that Obama employed at least two Nation members in his early days as a state senator, when his office was staffed by only a handful of workers.
"When you're a state senator, you have little money given to you to hire staff. It is ironic that two of Obama's employees in those days were known Nation of Islam activists ..."