No JD. In your humanistic mindset, man is still sovereign over God by making Him servant rather than Lord and Master over the spiritual realm. If man were indeed soveriegn over the physical realm, then the unborn infant would have the final choice if they wanted to be born or not.
(John 1:13) "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, ***nor of the will of man,*** but of God.
For you to claim that God gives spiritual birth on the basis of whether or not man chooses to receive Christ,then you are rewriting John 1:13 to read. "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, but by the will of man." Salvation is no lnger a gift, but a reward for human effort, thus works salvation.
When God enables his chosen to receive Christ, then salvation is of the Lord from start to finish.
Think about this for a minute, if man has sovereign control over the human population, wouldn't it seem fair for God to have sovereign control over the spiritual population. If man can control how many physical children he produces, why can't God have the same control over how many spiritual children He produces.
DJC49 wrote: JD, So you think that MAN is sovereign in his decision to bring children into this world, aye? Well, chew on these following verses of Scripture: Gen 20:18 "for the Lord had closed up every womb in Abimelech's household because of Abraham's wife Sarah." Gen 29:31 "When the Lord saw that Leah was not loved, He opened her womb, but Rachel was barren." Gen 30:22 "Then God remembered Rachel; he listened to her and opened her womb." 1Sa 1:5,6 "But to Hannah he gave a double portion because he loved her, and the Lord had closed her womb. And because the Lord had closed her womb, her rival kept provoking her in order to irritate her." Rom 4:19 "Without weakening in his faith, he [Abraham] faced the fact that his body was as good as dead-since he was about a hundred years old-and that Sarah's womb was also dead." For some strange reason, these few verses do NOT indicate to me the *sovereignty of man* in deciding who gets born into this world. Of course, you are entitled to your man-centered opinion.
Excellent rebuttal DJC49. Isn't it comforting to know that man's will reigns sovereign over God's will. At least that is how the freewills come across, God has no choice in the matter when it comes to bringing children into the world.
And I keep reiterating to them that the word "believeth" is in the presence tense. It is often used "carte blanche" to tell everybody that if they will believe on Him, they will be saved. The devils believe and tremble. Many will come to the Jesus saying Lord, Lord and will be cast into Hell.
As you state, it is a promise to believers that they will not perish, but have everlasting life.
Human effort is just that, coming to God by your own power, synergism. That is the whole crux of the Arminian freewill camp, self-effort. Monergism is God empowering those to come to Him.
Michael, whoever translated "reprobate mind" for "depraved mind" reprobates themselves as it is found in your corrupt translations like the NIV. God turned people over to a reprobate mind because they rejected the word of God. These men were totally depraved to start with. That is the natural state of unregenerated man to begin with.
The problem with the easy believism presentation of the gospel is the lack of godly sorrow to repentance unto salvation. That indicates no Holy Spirit conviction, just pray this prayer and God will save you, give them 3 verses of assurance that they are now saved. Would you call that true salvation, without sorrow and repetance.
Correct RK. God didn't make man to sin, He chose rather to leave them in their sin. Adam sinned willfully after the flesh in partaking of the forbidden fruit, as a result, every part of man's nature became corrupt and tainted, even the will.
enough already wrote: ,depraved,reprobate mind'-Romans 1:28. The greek meaning for depraved is 'unfit for, unproved, not standing the test-this is a mind tested by God and found to be worthless, useless. These are those who did not like to retain God in their knowledge, thus, God gave them over to this mentality. Not trying to pick any arguments, maybe there just needs to be a better choice of words used. God bless
Care to provide us the source to support that statement.
Merriam Webster's Dictionary defines "depraved" as "marked by corruption or evil."
Total - 1 : comprising or constituting a whole : entire the total amount 2 : absolute utter a total failure a total stranger 3 : involving a complete and unified effort especially to achieve a desired effect total war total theater synonyms see whole
(Matt 7:17-18) "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."
Total depravity cannot bear good fruit, it does not have the ability to produce good fruit. It is corrupt. Total depravity cannot do anything good to the pleasure of God. Except God supernaturally enables the totally depraved, it cannot respond favorably to God. Its heart is turned away from God and is at enmity with God. God is the one who has to change and turn the heart of sinful man to Himself. That is total depravity.
Good point Michael. That is the points I have been trying to get across. Not only did they preach against "the heinous wretchedness of all sin and God's wrath against it" but the "heineous wretchedness" of the sinner as well.
Non-calvinist fail in that point. It is called total depravity which they do not believe in. They still believe that man has the moral facalties to deal with his own sin and overcome the power of sin by his own power and not a total dependence on the power of God to deliver them from the bondage of sin.
R. K. Borill wrote: DB, I apologize if I seem to be sharp in my response to you here. You did make a good point; I should have begun by sying this. Thanks for pointing out what you did.
No problem Randy, I didn't take it that way. The fact that God uses the Holy Spirit to work in the hearts of unregenerated man is a work of sovereign grace. He could have left us all to die in our sins and He would have been just in doing so.
RK, in most cases I would agree with you. The sovereign grace of God is a gift. Jowever if you look closely at John 6:65 we see the pronoun "it" "except it were given unto him of the Father." The pronoun has to match in number and gender with its antecedent. In this case, since "it" is a neuter pronoun, it links back to verse 63. "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." The word "spirit" is a noun of the neuter gender. The word "grace" is always in the feminine gender.
Either way, God has to supernaturally work by the Spirit in the heart of unregenerate man to be able to understand the spirtual things of the Lord.
Wayne M. wrote: The women in colder climates like Canada where it is below freezing in the winter will not be found wearing skirts or dresses outside. It is a necessity to wear thermal underwear and slacks when outside in this area, for men or women, young and old.
What did women wear before sacks in colder climates? They wore dresses and their legs didn't freeze. So I don't buy that pants keeps them warmer.
Mike, I tend to agree. We see the case of the sinner and the publican. The sinner recognized his state and just simply stated, "Lord, be merciful to me a sinner". He recognized who Jesus was, LORD. He saw himself as he is, A SINNER. He knew the only recourse, HAVE MERCY.
Jesus then said that this man went home "JUSTIFIED".
Some definitely go so far to the extreme and neglect human responsibility, while others neglect God's complete sovereignty.
Jago is right though, if this was of the Lord who brought her to repentance, then the fruit will produce.
I asked Yamil about some Catholics who were saved recently and he did tell me that they followed the Lord in baptism and are attending his church. All I can say is praise God and rejoice that sinners repented and left the RCC.
The marks of true conversion is continuing to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord. The bible says, "By their fruits you shall know them" not "By their assurance you shall know them."
Lisa wrote: Wales-there is almost 100% apostacy in the local church, and no visible evangelism (not even tracts), in Barry the churches are padlocked...The field are so ripe for harvest...Please come and help.
After seeing some of the changes in the Revised Welsh Bible, I can understand why. Anytime translators resort to gender neutrality in the bible, there is a problem. I am sure you've read the sotory of Mary Jones who walked over 20 miles to purchase a bible that she could read. As a result, the British & Foreign Bible society was formed to get the bible in the hands of the people.