"How can the dead hear without first being given life? Could Lazarus hear Christ telling him to "Come forth!" without first being given life to even hear the Word? "In the beginning God created . . ."
"And God said, Let there be light, and there was light." When God speaks, the dead hear. When God speaks the Word, that which was without form and void, and where darkness was upon the face of the deep receive light where there was none…But you say, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the free will of man."
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Your assumption of the "dead in trespasses and sin" being compared to a corpse is ridiculous. Humanity has all the faculties of physical life. They have five senses, a conscience, reasoning power, and a will. Spiritual death is separation from God. According to Jesus words on the rich man and Lazarus, those in hell very well know the ultimate eternal separation from God, but are as alive as they were on the earth. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God means preaching the Gospel, which is the Word of God, to every creature; the preaching of the Word brings awareness of guilt and resultant conviction in the heart of the sinner. God has given the sinner the ability and right to receive or reject the Word.

Discerning Believer wrote
" JD: "They choose to do this and are not as sinful as they could be. They actually do some things that are not condemned by the bible."
Scripture: "Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
You have illustrated the problem of easy believism. Since you do not see men as totally sinful and totally depraved then you do not readily see the grace of God in the salvation of sinners. You do not see the sovereignty of God either. Even the good works of a lost sinner are as filthy rags and will not be worth one iota in attaining heaven…"
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The description in Isa 64:6 describes the Calvinists because they do not believe they need to repent and they can do nothing to lose their salvation. They are the same old man after salvation as they were before. They have received the imputed righteousness of Christ and have no personal responsibility to obey God or the Words of Christ. They have the easy believism while they accuse others of it. The devil nor the part he plays in the acts of humanity and the plan of salvation is never mentioned by them.

" The article is poorly written. Obviously designed to lament the current conditions, it incorporates some encouraging trends in the negative domain. Example: we are told that we do not possess a coherent biblical world view, and that we are embracing values that are not necessarily based on biblical foundations, yet we are told that we are now adopting values such as goodness, kindness and tolerance, and are embracing racial diversity and tolerance. Is the author attempting to say that traditional biblical foundations and a coherent biblical world view is at enmity with goodness, kindness, tolerance, and racial acceptance? My Bible has always endorsed these virtues! Is the author attempting to say that racial hatred, mean attitudes, and evil is a "coherent biblical world view"? I'm confused.
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Don't be confused, Tony! They know the Bible has always taught these virtues. They are trying to change the morals of the Bible, putting good for evil and evil for good. Those who do not accept the change are charged with not having those virtues.

Terry wrote
"JD
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
God knows everything
including you The Bible is all about God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit. man is there and
here for Gods Glory. Salvation, not to be mocked, why, why not everybody can go and be with God, so childish, so twisted, so unfair. maybe to you, from the mouth they speak their damnation.
To me its not only Good News, there are many Gospels, but the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the best thing I ever heard.
You on the other hand,
Its time for all to avoid you
terry
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J. D.,
Terry thinks that anyone that does not agree with him is causing divisions and offenses.

" So man does not really have free will until after they are saved and quickened by the Holy Spirit…"
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Why did you ask the question if you already knew the answer?

Be not deceived! God is not the author of sin The author of sin is Satan. Man has free will to follow Satan. Satan was a murderer and liar from the beginning and his followers are liars and murderers. Man's will is bound by sin and always chooses to sin because of pride, lust, greed, covetousness, selfishness, and all other attendant traits of the fallen nature, because he is controlled by the flesh and Satan.

Without the Holy Ghost man lives in sin, which is his Adam nature. But when God draws man by the hearing of the Gospel through the Holy Ghost, a desire is stirred within the sinful man's bosom, which he can heed or resist. If he obeys the drawing and repents of his wicked sinful ways, renouncing self and selfwill, God instantly imparts to him spiritual life Your debate is which instant man is saved, one second before he calls on God or one second after.

Moreover, after a man is saved, he still has free will. The flesh and the Spirit are still at war and if he falls back into his old sinful ways without repentance, he loses his salvation.

"(Rom. 3:11) "There is none that understandeth, ***there is none that seeketh after God.***"
(John 6:44) "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
(John 3:3) "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
(John 3:19-21) "19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
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Sorry, DB. You are not proving your point!!
These verses do not state that a soul must be regenerated before that soul can seek God. Nor do these verses state that humanity is not a free moral agent. You are reading your presuppositions into the Scriptures to come up with that analysis.

Men loved darkness—love—free will!

Cometh to the light—come—free will!

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

" "God gives His Spirit, regenerating the heart of the penitent soul that then seeks Him." - (Then) - "We have no ability to regenerate ourselves. We must cast ourselves on the mercy and grace of the Lord and He does the work....."
Grace and the Spirit first -
Then faith and repentance, enabled by the Spirit, brings the believer to seek Christ."
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Chapter and verse please!! Give a verse that specifically states your doctrine that a soul must be regenerated before that soul can seek Him.

"Could someone give me an explaination of this verse's in light of the supposed free will of man.
Jonah 2:9 …Salvation is of the LORD.
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
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The free will of humanity does not negate the fact that salvation is of the Lord. No one can save himself. We must call upon the Lord for deliverance and make supplication to Him for His mercy and grace.

Jesus came to the Jews but they refused to receive Him. They would not have their King rule over them. The masses of the Jews today still reject Jesus Christ their Messiah.

But as many as received Him, Jews and Gentiles alike—not born of the Israelite stock but of the Spirit—by the will of God, to them gave He power to become the sons of God even them that believe on His Name.

"Rev. 3:20 was written to THE CHURCH, not sinners! Many on here prove the truth of that verse too, since, by man's teaching they don't give Christ the glory in salvation that He alone deserves!
Just wondering".
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I give God the glory for His wonderful works and for His salvation and transformation He has wrought in my life. I praise the Lord Jesus Christ for the sacrifice He made to save my soul. He alone is worthy of glory, honor, and praise.

Rev 3:20 was written to the Church, but they were backslidden sinners. Jesus is not in the Laodicean Church, He is standing outside knocking. Only those who hear and obey His voice will be restored to salvation. If the backslidden Christians do not repent, they will be cast into hell. The messages to the Churches is very definite proof that one can lose their salvation if they do not keep their garments unspotted from the world. Repentance is the message to the Churches. Judgment begins at the house of God.

" Have you not read these verses Abigail?…Matt 7:20 Wherefore ***BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM.****
We in the Reformed Church pray that all shall believe on Jesus Christ for salvation.
John 10:9 "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.""
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Yes, Seaton! I know you by your fruits!!

You in the Reformed Church pray that ALL SHALL BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST FOR SALVATION? Why would you pray for something you do not believe? Wouldn't that be lying?

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if **any man** hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Michael Hranek

Thank you for your comment!

Walt wrote
"You Arminians limit God to Scripture, and reject His workings that have been foretold throughout all Scripture about Church History, especially. This is why our generation is so divided and ignorant on true doctrine. Everyone has their own vision, and that is "bible truth"."
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You are teaching extra-biblical stuff here, which you so heroically stand against!!

"Act 4:27-28 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For **to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.**"
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Jesus told Pilate He could have no power if God did not grant him the power. Jesus could have called twelve legions of angels to deliver Him, but He freely laid down His life; no man took it from Him.

Jesus death was predetermined by God, as the prophecies foretell. Jesus Christ came to earth to die for the sins of humanity. That does not prove that Pilate did not have a free will. Pilate obeyed his own pride and lust for power, as God foreknew he would; God has infinite knowledge of the past, present, and future.

" JD
In your illustration you have forgotten that all of them deserve to die. God has stated quite clearly that no one deserves eternal life but in His grace He chose some for salvation. We do not know who they are. Only God knows and He calls them out."
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You seem quite certain about who they are. You condemn to hell all that do not believe your Calvinism.

"You have repeatedly said that Calvinists don't care how they live becuase they know they are elect and don't have to worry about it. That is a misrepresentation that has been brought to your attention before. That makes you a liar and a slanderer because you willingly continue to do it.
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They are following and upholding their Reformed leaders and fight against doing good works. If they don't have good works their works are evil.

Luther wrote, "Be a sinner and in boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here in this world we have to sin. This is not a dwelling place of righteousness."

"The imputation of righteousness we need very much, because we are far from perfect…Nevertheless we may always take recourse to this fact, that our sins are covered, and that God will not lay them to our charge. Sin is not held against us for Christ's sake."

"No sin will separate us from the lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day."

"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world."

"Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth."
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Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and FOR THY PLEASURE THEY ARE AND WERE CREATED..

Psa 147:11 The LORD TAKETH PLEASURE IN THEM THAT FEAR HIM, IN THOSE THAT HOPE IN HIS MERCY.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, AND I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE.

Eze 18:23 HAVE I ANY PLEASURE AT ALL THAT THE WICKED SHOULD DIE? saith the Lord GOD: and NOT THAT HE SHOULD RETURN FROM HIS WAYS, AND LIVE?

Eze 18:32 FOR I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF HIM THAT DIETH, saith the Lord GOD: WHEREFORE TURN [YOURSELVES], AND LIVE YE.

Eze 33:11 Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I HAVE NOT PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF THE WICKED, BUT THAT THE WICKED TURN FROM HIS WAY AND LIVE: TURN YE, TURN YE FROM YOUR EVIL WAYS, FOR WHY WILL YE DIE, O house of Israel?

We are informed by the Calvinists that Scriptures that state "all" mean "elect".

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Translation: For as in Adam THE ELECT die, even so in Christ shall THE ELECT be made alive.

The rest of the world is immune to the death of Adam.

Pilate had a free will to let Jesus go but he sentenced Jesus against his will. The reason he sentenced Him was to save is political position. There would have been a great uprising among the Jews if Pilate had not consented to their demands.

The diabolical evils of the human heart were foreknown to God. The prophecies concerning the crucifixion were given because God foreknew what evil men would do when they were confronted with pure holiness. The whole world today, including the churches, hates holiness. They hate people that are harmless and blameless. They hate people that will not participate in their social customs and standards, in their greed. lust, malice, prejudice, and carnage against humanity.

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" OK Abigail
If thats the way you want it!
Lets just leave it with the simple conclusion that you are definately an Arminian.
According to Arminianism God is NOT sovereign and requires the cooperation of the sinner, [who just happens to be dead in sin?] to effect any saving grace.
This of course is the Roman catholic works based religion and unBiblical. It has also been diagnosed as heresy from the 5th century when Pelagius invented it.
Go to a Real Church Abigail and seek the Truth."
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I do not know what Arminianism is. I believe the Bible.

You did not answer the question!!

Does the Spirit do good works through you? If so, please explain what good works the Holy Spirit accomplishes through you!!