It matters not what you or I believe on the doctrine of salvation by grace. It only matters what *truth* God reveals to man in the Scriptures. The distinctions made between Pelagianism, Semi-Pelagianism, Arminianism and its fundamental support coming from Roman Catholicism is fully documented in History. Those who ignore the biblical commentaries on this topic, and blindly go out preaching and practicing it are unfortunately causing serious damage to the cause of Christ and the true gospel of Christ. Yes, I also must disagree with you on the cause and effect of your preaching.

However, I firmly believe that most people are too lazy to look into these issues, and would rather ignore comparing Scripture with Scripture. Even Pastors and Priests reject the historical testimony that settled this doctrine in church councils and synod's as they believe only the Pope has authority to settle controversies, or they believe (as pure independents who reject all other forms of church government) that the individual has all authority to make doctrine.

As an independent, arminian baptist, you will understand what I mean by rejecting historical testimony and supporting a pretended liberty of conscience.

The problem that the polygamist has is the doctrine of marriage. They reject the 7th commandment as they do not believe in adultery as involving more than one wife.

I've studied this topic in depth about a year ago and found that most polygamy promoters need to focus their efforts on the youngest possible girls. They teach the woman can only commit adultery, and "only" a married man can marry a single woman to avoid adultery. They argue that Adultery can only be defined as a married man engaging in sexual relations with a married women. They then avoid the idea of fornication by claiming that they will only marry a single women, then engage in sexual relations.

Marriage was instituted by God before Adams fall (e.g., pre-fall) and was a Godly ordinance for all to pattern. They twist and turn the Old Testament to support their lust and sexual desires to go after these young girls. The whole focus of their imagination is to get them young while they are single, and bring as many of them into their bed as possible.

They ignore Christ's example as I've listed below, and Paul's clarification of the matter. They prefer the lust of their heart over the truth of Scripture!

The reformers taught that Islam was the great eastern Antichrist so your preaching decision at the last minute was faithful and good. Unfortunately, as an Arminian you were not preaching the true gospel, but we don't need to head down that path on this thread. The important thing is that you made an appearance and I'm sure most of your preaching was understood by these folks in the audience. Distinctions on faithful and true gospel preaching is not something most people spend a lot of time on during these events.

I would love to see your next preaching event against the Christian Zionists. Have you studied this site:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/

If you really want to effectively preach against another Antichrist, this is one place to begin your research. Another one would be here:

http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/country/xdip.html
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/country/sc1.html

"Calvinism is traditionally summarized in five points. But it is interesting to note that Calvin’s “five points” find their origin not in Calvin, but in the “five points” of Arminius! Arminius’ followers presented to a church council five points upon which they disagreed with Calvinistic theology. The council, in responding to those five points, presented the “five points” of Calvinistic doctrine. Thus the Calvinistic doctrine became identified with five distinct tenets."

Excellent! If we could get the average Arminian Baptist and Pentecostal to understand this it would go a long way to having them avoid stumbling over their keyboard on this site!

Rugh writes:

"The Church today emphasizes a salvation that depends upon man and his response. Evangelists often implore people to “make a decision for Christ,” as if it were entirely up to them. This leads some unbelievers to arrogantly say, “Well, maybe I will decide for Christ—but maybe I will not. I will have to think about it.”

"Praise the Lord all ye his saints.! Another sinner has accepted the Lord as Savior today. We told her that she is a sinner on her way to hell. We also told her, that Jesus loves her and wants to save her if she would put her faith in Christ and repentance towards sin."

Why are you saying, "Praise the Lord all ye his Saints!"?

Would it not be best if you gave the credit to yourself for delivering the message and give the credit to this lady who accepted your message? It seems to me that together you both should get all the praise...why do you give it to the Lord?

Come out from behind Calvin and really take a bow for your good works! Of course, they are of yourself and the Lord has not right to this praise I can tell by your typical Arminian teachings.

"And I pray that JD might encounter a few of the yet-unborn Elect who, despite it's messenger, hear the Gospel and receive it as truly the "Good News.""

Yes, this is exactly the case. Even Paul himself, as an Apostle, never taught that beyond his own ability to plant the seeds required of him, think he could save souls. He knew that God Himself provides the increase!

Not only does the Father, through the righteousness of the Son, give the gift of justification, but sanctification as well, and mortification as well and glorification as well. These are all acts of mercy and grace provided by the Father, and anyone (Arminians, semi-Pelagians and the like) who claims they are the key to man's appointment of the elect in Christ know not the Scripture.

Martin Luther once proclaimed that:

"the purpose of marriage is not pleasure and ease but the procreation and education of children and the support of a family.... People who do not like children are swine, dunces, and blockheads, not worthy to be called men and women, because they despise the blessing of God, the Creator and Author of marriage" (Christian History, Issue 39, p. 24).

Verse 10: The Jews quite immodestly gabble concerning this thing. It will suffice for me briefly to have touched upon this as much as modesty in speaking permits. The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall to the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born--the hoped for offspring.

This impiety is especially condemned, now by the Spirit through Moses' mouth, that Onan, as it were, by a violent abortion, no less cruelly than filthily cast upon the ground the offspring of his brother, torn from the maternal womb. Besides, in this way he tried, as far as he was able, to wipe out a part of the human race. If any woman ejects a foetus from her womb by drugs, it is reckoned a crime incapable of expiation and deservedly Onan incurred upon himself the same kind of punishment, infecting the earth with his semen, in order that Tamar might not conceive a future human being as an inhabitant of the earth."

Don't you find it amazing the difference between your former life as an Arminian and how it changes so dramatically when the Lord opens your eyes to Amazing Grace!

It is like the Baptist/Pentecostal who believes that God has no authority over the womb of the mother, and cannot open or close the womb at His Will. Thus, they "choose" birth control so they can show God just how many children they will have, and just how many they will not have. They are in total control this way, and in case they do "accidently" get pregnant than perhaps a trip to the local Planned Parenthood would fix that problem.

Man is obsessed with control, and thus they must control birth, death and everything inbetween. They must control their salvation, as well as their false worship of God. They need to have it all, control it all and run around telling everyone how they are in control of everything under the sun.

The problem with this view they profess is when they die suddenly, and then their family says, "I though he was in control of death as well...hmmm, so much for the Arminian doctrine they taught!"

Again, I cannot get this point across more clearly that one should not be using the world to define Scripture. Scripture must be used to define Scripture, and worldly definitions must not be used.

Query, wrote: "I was not aware that Christ needed conversion Walt and that the Holy Spirit coming down on him represented his regeneration."

Where on earth did I say that? I just reviewed the quote you made above, and I stated exactly what the Scripture said. Christ was baptised first, then the Holy Spirit descended upon him second. That is the order. Can you please be specific and tell me where I said that Christ was regenerated by the Holy Spirit after Baptism, or even at His example of Baptism?

"it is the independent, fundamentalist Baptists who are teaching the truths of God along with some other groups like the Messianic Jewish congregations who are likewise fundamentalist in their approach to God."

Oh boy, I think you have got to get away from TBN and the traveling Evangelicals!

Hey, JD, I just thought about this site that you might like to read if you want to know the differences between what the Orthodox Jews teach and the "fundamentalist" Messianic Jews.

http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/greatgulf.cfm

"How do you make these leaps
I hope you have a net.

I got to go to the store,"

Well, is there any warrant to go shopping at the store on the Sabbath beyond doing so out of necessity or out of mercy?

Did you ever hear of the Sabbath laws back when the Puritans and Pilgrims ran the early colonial America, and into many parts of the country? I'm sure Florida had some Sabbath laws...why would you not want to stay faithful to keeping the commands of God?

Perhaps because you are an Antinomian or Libertine, and the law does not apply to you under Grace!?

And you wonder why I jumped to the conclusion...it was not just your words Terry, but now I can see it by your works as well. That is how church discipline is applied in the real world.

Your comments below were almost funny if we did not all know that you believe it.

Sad...indeed, you are in a sad condition!

"Walt
Very kindly do not put words in my mouth that I did NOT say.

You do understand that bearing false witness is a sin against God. You may not like this but I believe you owe me an apology. Thank you."

Opps, I assumed that you did require baptism for one to be saved. It seemed this was clear in the need for rebaptism practiced by you, and that immersion was the only mode acceptable for baptism.

Now that I understand more clearly that you do not believe either immersion or rebaptism is necessary mode to baptismal regeneration, I do apologize. It was implied by your teachings from what I was reading below, but your views are still confusing to me.

I really don't understand what baptism is used for in your theology if it is not a sign & seal (biblical) or used for regeneration (Romish/Arminian/Wesley).

Interesting comment you made below, "Im not under the law". I did not know you were a Libertine and Antinomian.

"What remains to be considered very briefly is what James means by his words in James 2:24: “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” First, James is addressing those who seem to think that simply because they say they believe in God, they are justified (James 2:19). James is addressing Libertines and Antinomians who have not actually trusted in Christ as their righteousness, but who only have made such a profession. And how does James know that it is only a mere profession and not the actual possession of a saving faith? There is no evidence of a saving faith in loving obedience to Christ and His law...."

It is interesting always to see one who is "born again" but reject that they have to sanctify and mortify the flesh.

"But to get things back on topic a bit...I love when a new believer testifies of their faith in Jesus Christ and tells of how God has brought them to salvation and changed their life...and then is baptized by immersion."

The more I see you write, the more it is becoming obvious that you do not understand the doctrine of salvation by Christ alone. How can you say on one hand, "tells of how God has brought them to salvation and changed their life" but time and time again you argue it is up to the believer to accept salvation.

It is a contradiction so often with you guys who say, "many are called, but few choose" compared to Scripture which says, "many are called, but few are chosen".

I am about ready to go to bed now, but a couple comments.

The law of God applies to all men, not just Christians. Marriage is an institution established by God for all men, not just the elect of God. There are lots of proof texts on how marriage is a covenant, and is the means between man and women to avoid adultery. The ten commendments, including adultery, applies to all not just believers.

Secondly, you cannot call your previous marriages as unbiblical if you both were unsaved and non-believers. If you were saved, and they were not, you are still required by Scripture to keep covenant as you are a sanctifying means of grace to your wife. This is the same with parents who believe, and baptise their infants into the promises contained in the Covenant of Grace. Neither your wife or an infant is justified by the marriage or baptism, but there is a covenantal blessing to stay in the marriage, and to rear your children in the admonition of the Lord.