But it's still our choice. We are not robots, and our faith is tried and tested, which is why we're here in the first place, why we have a Bible, and why there is such a thing as Heaven and Hell.

It's a big Bible, more than just John 3:16, needs to be harmonized, and we need to study all of it to make ourselves "wise unto salvation."

The Parable of the Sower teaches very plainly that it is possible to lose one's salvation. The third example especially was once fruitful but BECAME unfruitful, received no rewards for any former fruit, so we can assume went to Hell since the fourth example in the Parable of the Sower all received rewards for their fruit. The only reason not to receive a reward for fruit is that one doesn't end up in Heaven because they dried up as number three from deceitfulness of riches and/or the cares of this life.

It's about as foolish as your claim that we are saved by God's wrath (the Great Bean Counter in the Sky) rather than by the perfect sacrifice of Jesus.

It is the blood of Jesus that cleans and renews, not God's wrath poured out on Jesus, all totalled up, looking ahead to the predestined sins you would commit so they could all be punished at one instant.

What does what the armies of Heaven wear have to do with the timing of the Rapture?

If the Rapture happens, as Paul said in II Thes. 2, when Jesus comes to destroy the Man of Sin with the "brightness of his coming" -- and not as you say it does, some seven years before this time -- how is the scripture you offer a "proof" of what you claim?

If the believers who are raptured come with Jesus to destroy the Antichrist, you think they will be wearing blue jeans? You don't think they will be given new clothes to go with their new body in the twinkling of an eye?

First you say God loves everybody, and anybody can be saved if they come to Jesus.

Then you say God is going to judge people to Hell because their government didn't help the Jews.

Have you ever read the Parable of the Sower?

Solomon died in total rebellion to God and went to Hell, and so did Saul, and Judas, the foolish widows, the five foolish virgins, Demas, Hymaneus and Alexander. If it wasn't possible to fall away, the word wouldn't be in the Bible, would it (ie apostasy).

Jesus taught a lot about Heaven and Hell, how to get to Heaven and avoid Hell, and if Jesus cared enough to come to earth and walk among us, to teach and speak to us in his own words directly, not through the mouths of prophets but by his own mouth, should we not listen to those words?

Or maybe instead you think Paul was trying to work his way to Heaven, that his faith was in his own good works, that Paul didn't really believe in Jesus? Maybe Paul wasn't really saved.

Look how hard Paul worked, sacrificing everything he had, enduring all kinds of hardships, pouring himself out in service to God.

I guess maybe Paul was a RC?

Of course we know there's a lot antinomians who like to post here, especially the dispys and the Battlefield Baptists, who think Paul was a vile sinner right up to the day he died.

When we harmonize the scripture, we see plainly that certain sins will keep people out of Heaven, period. Murder and adultery were an automatic ticket to Hell for David; yet we read that David was restored. Same with Peter, who denied the Lord three times. So we know that Peter's salvation was at least in great jeopardy for a time.

We don't know how long a person has to repent before they dry up completely and are broken off. The prodigal son was in unrepentant riotous living for a year or more and David unrepentant of murder and adultery for perhaps a year, before he repented. Were they lost during that time and later restored, or just drying up slowly?

We also know from Jesus' teaching of the backslidden servant that this servant was faced with judgment unexpectedly, that he had no time to repent and get right, and he went to Hell.

This is a flat out lie. You have no right to make it. It is false, false, false. The evidence is to the contrary. I posted a link. Read it.

I don't know how much plainer I can make myself.

Security was controlled by Marvin Bush. The people hired were part of the inside job.

Read the link I put up, the statements of witnesses.

And the owner of the buildings PUBLICLY ADMITTED he had at least one of them, Building 7, blown up, or "pulled."

But you can keep on living in Wonderland, mocking and calling people names who try to point out the facts, facts which you REFUSE to examine, and PREFER to assert your completely groundless opinions as fact.

Do you claim to be a clairvoyant? How is it that you have this knowledge that there were no witnesses to workers coming and going in the Towers and Bldg 7, that nobody saw anything? Maybe you should break down and investigate this a bit before you flap your big opinionated mouth, exposing your total wilful ignorance and cowardly naivite.

Do you try to cram your view that nothing you do will cost you your salvation? I'll bet your people love to hear that, swallow it in big gulps, and say, thank you, Preacher, tell us more!

Of course, if you were to tell them the truth, most of them would probably not come back, and then you'd lose your salary, so best to keep on telling them what they want to hear, avoid the Words in Red and mock them as you have here. But on Judgment Day, you are going to have a lot to answer for.

First you say God loves everybody, and anybody can be saved if they come to Jesus.

Then you say God is going to judge people to Hell because their government didn't help the Jews.

Oh, really? How is it you make these claims? Where did you read or hear that nobody saw or heard of any workmen pounding and working in the Twin Towers and Building 7 in the weeks prior to 9/11? Are you always in the habit of stating your opinions as fact without ever having read or searched to find any facts to base it on? Prove it. Got a link? Got anything whatever to back up your demagogic statement? Do you have a crystal ball that tells you what's what?

As a matter of fact, if you were to look into this matter, which you obviously never will because you don't want to know, you'd find out there are many witnesses who describe all kinds of strange noises and loud thumps and drilling and banging, and whole floors with strange goings on, where witnesses say were banned from entering.

And of course, Marvin Bush was in charge of security for all three buildings. Marvin Bush is brother to GWB. www.whatreallyhappened.com/911security.html

Well, the owner of the building, Larry Silverstein, did offer an explanation, publicly, on the Discovery Channel, and it can still be Googled up and viewed by anyone.

Silverstein, who also owned the other two towers which went splat on 9/11, admitted publicly that he had the building "pulled" and "then we watched the building come down," he said.

Well, it takes weeks and weeks to set up a controlled demolition. It's not something you can decide to do in a split second and have somebody run in and plant the bombs in five minutes. It takes weeks and weeks of preparation.

We learn Jesus is coming back at the Last Trump, not 7 years before the Second Coming in a secret rapture.

We learn in II Thes. 2, Paul telling the believers not to expect Jesus to come back until he comes to destroy the Man of Sin with the "brightness of his coming."

Paul didn't say, hey, some bad things are going to happen, but Jesus is coming before all that, and we just don't know when it is going to be, could be any second.

The Bible says Jesus is coming at the Last Trump, that when he comes he will destroy the antichrist.

How can we have a pretrib rapture if Jesus is going to destroy the antichrist when he comes? Without the antichrist, there can't be a tribulation.

Have you read 1 and II Thessalonians lately?

I know you think the words of Jesus in the four gospels are subpar scripture, not worthy of reading or paying attention to, but these words on the catching up in I and II Thessalonians are the words of Paul, and there's not one word there that says anything about a pretrib rapture, or a secret rapture.

So is Richard Land, head of the Southern Baptists.

And all the big name evangelicals belong to Moonie front groups and most take money from Moon as well.

As you know, Moon says he is the Messiah, and Jesus was a fraud and a failure.

Modern Christianity is a RACKET!

Why should anybody be afraid to disagree with me? Maybe because they know they are wrong and are walking on very thin ice? People who know the truth aren't afraid to disagree with anybody.

I'm not afraid to disagree with George Bush and his band of Satanists in the White House and if he held his hand out to me I'd refuse to shake it.

If I'm not afraid of George Bush and he has the power to disappear me, why should anybody on this little Internet forum be afraid of me, a faceless stranger who has absolutely no power over them whatsoever.

If people are that timid, they have no business to call themselves Christian.

Well, in the Parable of the Sower, the third example was once fruitful, but stopped bearing fruit, ended up in Hell.

Ezekiel sez if a person was once good but then goes bad, that the good that he did is forgotten, he goes to Hell. But if a bad man becomes good, the bad that he did is forgotten, not held against him.

It's all about if you die in your sins or not. If you dry up on the vine, or go dry as the five foolish betrothed virgins and run out of time to "fill 'er up," die dry, you go to Hell.

Jesus taught about the backslidden servant who thought he had time to "get right," but ran out of time and went to Hell.

The lazy servant also went to Hell.

The Prodigal Son was "dead but now is alive," "lost and now is found."

Peter denied Jesus three times. Jesus said whoever denies him, that he'd deny that person before the Father. Peter lost his salvation, but repented, and was restored.

David committed sins of murder and adultery, was in a state of lostness for perhaps a year, and had he died during that time he'd now be in Hell. But David repented of his sin and God forgave him.

Your claim that OSAS is the "gospel" is heresy; people get saved from preaching of Jesus, not OSAS. OSAS is antinomianism, a doctrine of devils; has caused many a person to fall and stay fallen, who otherwise would not had they been taught the truth.

"OT
Are you really saved?
Are you really IN Christ?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Are YOU? What makes you think you are? Did God come by while you were sleeping in your bed and zap you one night? If so, how do you know you got zapped?

Were you awake? Can you tell us this great experience of when God came by and zapped you, when you didn't ask him to, didn't want him to, but he just did it?

This is what YOU believe.

I already said I am working out my own salvation with fear and trembling, showed scripture that says we can lose our salvation, that it's not over until it's over. I'm not hitting people over the head here, saying "you're not saved and I am saved, nah, nah, nah."

I'm just pointing out what the Bible actually says, which is not at all what you and the rest of the indoctrinated lemmings who like to post here claim it says.