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USER COMMENTS BY “ WALT ”
Page 1 | Page 4 ·  Found: 500 user comments posted recently.
Survey4/13/08 12:03 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Adelphos,

Sorry for the mistake. I was intending to write to Observation Post rather than you, and am sure it must have been a surprise to read my post to you.

I am certain the book that I get retyped will not be of much interest to you, although I do remember you downloaded it to add to your collection of books, but I am happy to make the electronic version available to you as well when it is completed.

I'm sure it is not something you would ever want to be published or make it into the mainstream Christian church as it would cause your polygamist plan some setbacks, but at least you would have access to some of the biblical arguments that you don't find in your literature.

The offer is open to you as well if you want an electronic copy.

Walt.


Survey4/13/08 10:25 AM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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"Hymns of human composition are used so commonly now in public worship by Presbyterian churches that it is difficult to believe that the practice is not a hundred years old, and that in some of the churches it is of very recent date. On the supposition that it is good and dutiful and wise to sing such hymns in worship, it is equally difficult to account for the neglect of the churches at the time of the Reformation, and for generations afterwards.

What could have so blinded the reformers as to make them reject hymns and using the Psalms alone?

How could the Westminster Divines, in framing their Confession of Faith and Directory for Worship, have been so unanimous in the blunder that the service of praise is to consist of the 'singing of Psalms?'

And apart from the aspect of duty, how could the Presbyterian churches, for about a hundred and fifty or two hundred years after the Westminster Assembly, have been so insensible to the power of hymns as an attractive addition to their public services?

We cannot by any means understand how it was that, if it was dutiful to use hymns in worship, the reformers did not discover the Scriptural warrant for the duty, especially as hymns had been used for centuries by the Church of Rome.....


Survey4/13/08 9:50 AM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Adelphos,

I have not had a chance to read the comments posted over the past week on this topic, but would like to inform you that I have found someone to retype the book "The Hebrew Wife", by S.E. Dwight (1836). I'm not sure when she will finish, but once it is in electronic, searchable text I will send you a copy.

The problem with your adversaries on here is that they don't read the bible from what I can see. They are the typical bible paster and only believe what they saw from what other polygamist adherents have told them. Most likely they have never read the bible cover-to-cover and I saw where someone said he has 2,500 books on his shelf, but what on earth does that have to do with Scripture truth. One can get a good education from historical testimony, and it is crucial to understanding the arguments on various subjects through history, but if one were to look through that library of 2,500 books the chance the best and most faithful ministers in history would be absent is high...unfortunately.

Most would be worldly authors who just love the idea of a polygamy society and the sin that flows from these sects.

I'll keep you posted. Dwight does a good job of using Scripture to prove Scripture context.


Survey4/10/08 11:52 AM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Using Scripture to interpret Scripture, the Truth Shall Set You Free!

The Hebrew Wife
by S.E. Dwight
1836

Read this classic exegetical work and be free from the bondage of the law and the slavery of polygamy!

Learn their arguments as they are not new and have been thoroughly overcome by Scripture using Scripture for context.

Even the promotion of slavery as these people also often promote, as it was permitted in the OT, is a sin. The Hebrew Wife will give you the tools you need to understand the passages they appeal to as they seek out single young girls to bring into bedroom.

We have also heard of the women on here as well as they appeal to your hearts to just understand how good it feels to be involved in a pologamy family, but sin is always designed to appeal to the lust of the flesh and the pride of life.

BEWARE!


Survey4/10/08 10:58 AM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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NT Believer wrote:

"Guys, Walt from Michigan is a middle to late-aged man who is not even married. He knows nothing about monogamy much less polygamy."

It is an interesting way to turn an argument around by making that statement.

To imply above that being a single man somehow disqualifies one from giving biblical discernment on polygamy is foolish. Paul was single, John was single and Christ was single. All the major and minor prophets were single, and all were given discernment to comment on every topic under the sun.

Being single may be implied by these people below as the disqualifying litmus test to be able to comment on various biblical subjects, but I would reject this view. The subject is simple and boils down to the definition of marriage and adultery in Scripture. These topics do not require anyone to be involved in marriage or in adultery to comment.

Polygamy is adultery, against the moral law of God and evil by any definition. Those who promote it and practice it are ignorant of Scripture. Again, I would ask anyone to read "The Hebrew Wife" available on google in PDF to learn of the detailed exegetical arguments on these passages.


Survey4/9/08 9:45 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Adelphos,

You are a serious deceiver on this site. Your promotion of polygamy leads to terrible sex slavery for these women.

"The Biblical ideal of human marriage is the monogamous one. The Creation story and all the ethical portions of Scripture speak of the union of a man with one wife. Whenever a Prophet alludes to marriage, he is thinking of such a union — lifelong, faithful, holy. Polygamy seems to have well-nigh disappeared in Israel after the Babylonian Exile. Early Rabbinic literature presupposes a practically monogamic society; and out of 2800 teachers mentioned in the Talmudim, one only is stated to have had two wives. In the fourth century Aramaic paraphrase (Targum) of the Book of Ruth, the kinsman (IV, 6), refuses to 'redeem' Ruth, saying, 'I cannot marry her, because I am already married; I have no right to take an additional wife, lest it lead to strife m my home'. Such paraphrase would be meaningless, if it did not reflect the general feeling of the people on this question." The Very Rev. The Chief Rabbi Dr J. H. HERTZ.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/talmud/nashim_h.html


Survey4/9/08 9:28 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Dear reader,

If anyone can locate more information on the author Tom Shipley, I would appreciate other books he has written. I see he is quoting Augustine, Bahnsen and Hodge on the back cover, but I cannot read the quotes. If they are supporting polygamy in these quotes, it would be interesting to read them.

I have googled Shipley but get too many other people not related, and even with the word marriage. There is a website with his name linked, but it is closed.

Here is a more modern and appropriate book for the evils of polygamy, entitled, "God's Brothel: The Extortion of Sex for Salvation in Contemporary Mormon and Christian Fundamentalist Polygamy and the Stories of 18 Women Who Escaped." It is:

"A shocking indictment of polygamy...

http://www.polygamy.org/publications.shtml

...Their horrifying stories involve drugs, rape, incest, orgies, and violence, making this form of slavery (which is growing in phenomenon in 30 US states, Canada and Mexico).

BEWARE!


Survey4/9/08 6:44 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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For those interested to examine each of these texts, in context, the author below has written what is considered one of the classic studies on the topic.

The Hebrew Wife
by S.E. Dwight
1836

You can find it on google books. I'm trying to get an electronic PDF copy so I can have a typist retype the entire book into e-text. If anyone can get me an e-text copy of the book in PDF, I will give you my email so I can get started on retyping it.

There are other works I believe that deal with specific texts these Polygamy promoters use out of context, especially on this forum, claiming their biblical scholarship. Remember, they are giving you "their biased opinion" with a modern presupposition based upon lust of the flesh that plagues them at every turn in our society.

I would encourage those of you to look closer at the book above, and other opinion of Scripture, before taking these guys opinion on Scripture. It is a shame what these guys are doing to young girls twisting scripture to promote their lusts and if it is not stopped, your own daughters (and even wives in some opinions) will be prey to these guys. Beware!


Survey4/7/08 1:19 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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David,

Your IQ and education is not the litmus test of ignorance of Scripture. I wish it was directly related for many people's sake who are brilliant, but foolishly ignorant of God's word.

One simple commentary overturns 2Sam.12:8 which so many argue as being the main text to support polygamy.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary:
"8. I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives-The phraseology means nothing more than that God in His providence had given David, as king of Israel, everything that was Saul's. The history furnishes conclusive evidence that he never actually married any of the wives of Saul. But the harem of the preceding king belongs, according to Oriental notions, as a part of the regalia to his successor."

Geneva Study Bible:
"And I gave thee thy master's {b} house, and thy master's {c} wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee {d} such and such things.
(b) For David succeeded Saul in his kingdom.
(c) The Jews take this to be Eglah and Michal, or Rizpah and Michal."

If you would kindly learn Scripture, it would become obvious to you folks.


News Item4/7/08 6:59 AM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isa.5:20)

By the way, I'm not defining what the verse means above, but will let anyone take it in the context of Isaiah. There was a prophet who left little unsaid against the evil of his day, and the evil that was to come.


Survey4/7/08 6:54 AM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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David,

I don't have time this week to deal with your ignorance of Scripture, but be rest assured pasting Scripture without comparing it with other Scriptures is of little interest to me.

You speak of high authority, but your arguments are not new. There are many of your types who are doing everything you can to bring back polygamy and slavery. Even some of your types are arguing the use of force is warranted for Israel to do its land grab throughout the middle east because you find warrant with select passage in the Old Testament. Those who followed Joseph Smith and his revelations were at one time considered a cult, but today they are becoming main stream. Fortunately, the Mormon church reversed its position on polygamy, but there are still many of you out there who will promote it along with slavery.

The life of the Independent. Learn church government and worship, and you will clear up a lot of your confusion.


Survey4/6/08 10:08 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Adelphos wrote:

"Being in the minority did not stop people like Martin Luther, John Calvin, the Puritans, and many others who believed that God's Word is the final authority."

Yes, however, the difference between a faithful minister and yourself is that they use all of Scripture to interpret Scripture...not just the Old Testament.

The problem with Polygamy promoters is that they refuse to allow God's holy word to interpret itself cover-to-cover. They reject marriage (as you have done below) pre-fall, and reject that adultery can be between a married man and single girl. Your lust of the flesh has overcome you so fiercely that you can only see multiple girls with one man.

"Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge." (Heb.13:4).

"Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready." (Rev.19:7)

Anyone that teaches Christ has multiple "wives" who will make theirselves ready is a liar.


Survey4/6/08 9:47 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Adelphos,

I'm afraid if you do not believe in the doctrine of marriage and the doctrine of adultery, you and I will get nowhere in a public debate.

Luther was wrong on many issues, including polygamy. Melancthon was a student and biographer of Luther so his presupposition was in error. Some called Methancthon the "alter ego" of Luther. Although Bucer disagreed with Luther on some issues, he was of the same "alter ego" in most issues.

I have never read any commentaries or church court decisions out of Scotland during the first reformation (1560-1600) or the second reformation (1638-1649) promoting polygamy, which I would hold to be her faithful periods in defining doctrine, discipline, worship and government.

Nevertheless, Scripture itself is the final arbiter on truth and morals, and ignoring the context of all Scripture in favor of a few passages is a serious error. God's creation ordinance, where he created marriage between one man and one women, before the fall, is warrant. Even nudity before the fall was warrant positive. Christ (Mt.9:5) and Paul (1Cor.7:2) confirm the importance of monogomy in marriage, and reject sinful polygamy. If you don't see the importance of one faithful bride (Rev.21:9) in marriage with Christ, but promote many brides, shame on you


Survey4/6/08 9:01 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Quoted from a sermon:

"Jesus Himself guarantees that not even one who truly believes in Him can ever be lost (John 6:37). Dear ones, to place yourselves to varying degrees under the Covenant of Works by what you believe and practice is to remove yourselves from the blessedness of the Covenant of Grace. For example, when you forget that Christ has already fully paid for your deliverance from that sin through His death (that sin that so easily besets you) and that you are legally dead to that sin through faith in Christ, and you rather act as though it is ultimately up to you to deliver yourself from the besetting sin by your mere resolutions and efforts, you have unwittingly placed yourself under the Covenant of Works....

...For there is no power, no virtue, and no strength promised in the Law of God (as holy, just, and good as is the Law of God). The Law apart from God’s grace simply demands obedience. It is the Covenant of Grace (wherein Christ has secured for us all that we need) that promises us and gives us the grace and power to overcome sin and to please God by loving and thankful obedience to His Law. And it is the Covenant of Grace that promises and gives us both forgiveness of all our sins and the imputed righteousness of Christ."


Survey4/6/08 8:27 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Adelphos,

I don't know who you are as I have not been to this site in many months, however, it is clear you are very confused. In fact, from a brief review of your comments I can see you have virtually no orthodox Christian church knowledge on these basic subjects, and are blinded by some sort of sect that you are following.

I'm sure many of the warm and fuzzy Christians on this site are going to be upset with me for rebuking your false doctrine and deception as "not very Christ like", but from my reading of the Scripture over 45 times cover-to-cover I can assure you they are blinded by ignorance, and lack faithful bible reading.

I'm also sure to receive a few "pride" comments leveled against me for having a strong desire to read Scripture over and over and over again, day in and day out, and get the whole context of His Word.

Your comments below are almost laughable regarding questioning context and your appealing to Lexicon definitions are unconvincing. If you want to promote sinful polygamy, then do it on another site and stay away from the young girls.

I hope the civil magistrate goes after more of your type, and puts you all behind bars for life. It is tragic what your types are doing to these young girls preaching this false doctrine.


Survey4/6/08 6:50 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Adelphos, you wrote:

"One Scripture never proves a doctrine."

I did not use one scripture to prove the doctrine of marriage. There are multiple passages to prove the doctrine of marriage.

GEN 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

MAT 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

GEN 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

MAL 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

1CO 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

You may also want to learn the doctrine of adultery as well since you appear to be confused there as well.


News Item4/6/08 6:35 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Michael,

Yes, I'll keep that in mind. Actually, you raised the topic of preaching in front of these muslims and I was only trying to make the distinction between a true gospel message and a false one. I think it was on point.

Enough Already wrote:

"To judge another brother for what he says God has put on his heart to do is dangerous."

Paul wrote:

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal.1:6-8)

If you are not familiar with what Paul was referring to in his inspired letter to the Galatian church, I would encourage you to read his rebuke.

Those who preach a false gospel, whether in the street, on TV or from the Vatican, will get Paul's warning:

"As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Gal.1:9)


News Item4/6/08 3:42 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Michael,

I'm afraid I do not understand your last two paragraphs below. Arminians fear God?!?

I look out over this generation of street preachers, TV evangelists, new Priests flocking into the Roman Catholic church and think often about Elijah at Mount Carmel. Throughout all of Israel at his time he was the only faithful, visible preacher. Yet, the Lord told him that he was but one of 7,000. I know we all look around this world and see all the beautiful things Christians do for others, but when you begin to look at the faithful testimony through Church history, and compare it to our generation, I'm afraid we are in for some serious correction and rebuke.

Michael, fortunately, as an Arminian you are convinced you will be raptured with all the TV Evangelists before the vial judgments pour out on the earth...thus, you have no fear. Those of us who are reformed pre-mills see another side of the vials coming where judgment will begin at the house of God.

The more I see the Christian Zionist and Jewish Zionist movements growing, and the global power structure of Rome and her daughters, the more I want to speak out against you Arminians.

In my experience, the Arminians do not even remotely fear God, and just fear man.


Survey4/6/08 3:18 PM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Dear Shiek Akmed,

There are many "examples" the Polygamist give from Scripture. Some commentators include: Lamech (Gen.4:19-24); Abraham (Gen.16:1, 25:1,6; 1Chron.1:32), Esau (Gen.26:34, 28:9), Jacob (Gen.29,30), Gideon (Judg.8:30,33), Elkanah (1Sam.1:1-3), Rehoboam (IIChron.11:17-23), Abijah (II Chron.13:10-21), Moses (Num.12); David (IISam.5:10-13), Jehoiada (IIChron.24), etc.

If you select only Old Testament passages to support your doctrine, I think you will be able to effectively argue as some Rabbinical authors of the Mishna and Talmud. However, many teach and promote monogamy, not polygamy.

If you have not studied the New Testament, you will not be familiar with how ignorant the "expert" scribes, pharisees, sadducees and lawyers were in their understanding of Scripture.

You unfortunately ignore the doctrine of marriage pre-fall (before sin) and you ignore the 7th commandment on Adultery in order to feed your lust.

Both Christ Himself, who is the author of inspired Scripture, and the Apostle Paul, made many clarifications to rebuke the lust of the flesh. Evil and sin always feels good until Judgment comes from the Lord...you can read about Solomon and David on this biblical fact.


Survey4/6/08 10:51 AM
Walt | Michigan  Find all comments by Walt
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Bernie,

Much of the support for Polygamy comes from the Talmud and Mishna.

"After the period of the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and before this, in the case of Adam and Noah, monogamy ruled. The Prophets were monogamists. Moses commanded regarding a man of God that: "Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away. …" (Deuteronomy 17:17) And, admittedly, the polygamy of David and his son Solomon ended the Israel twelve-tribe united Kingdom. Their hordes of pagan wives, and foul, pagan altars broke down any Godly spirit which had formerly united them. However, reversing the Bible once again, Pharisee "Sages" embroider upon the above words of Moses against polygamy, their permission to have 18, 24, or 48 wives. (Talmud, Sanhedrin 20b-21a) The Mishna asks: "Why then is it written, neither shall he multiply wives to himself … Rabbi Simeon said: He must not marry even one who may turn away his heart — From which it might be inferred that he may marry a lesser number even if they should corrupt him."

There is a lot more on the topic practiced and promoted by the Talmudic Rabbi's, but it takes research:

http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/p_chapt05.html

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