1517 wrote: I don't mind the use of story telling or allegory to present truth, but we are to worship Christ, not appease the flesh, while in the sanctuary.
Where is the place one would *ordinarily* expect to find the truth presented? Where did I just read our lives are our witness?
If faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God; then it should be in the house of God on the day appointed and God has not given us permission to add to or subtract from what is written. Consider listening to the sermon mentioned on the thread about Nebraska's capital that 'suggestion' offered. It is ultimately what the Lord commends as the means, Yes? Then the burden left to us is to seek for truth like hid treasure because in our day it is.
Desiring your prayerful consideration of these things for the good of you and your household in these trying days. God bless your diligence for their good.
Suggestion wrote: Concerning worship. Worth a listen: Arminianism in Worship Greg Price Posted 12/16/15.
Thank you. I could agree without reservation and take what was said and apply it to my own heart in the matter of worship.
@sf The best way to answer your previous question would be for you to contrast what was preached in this message mentioned above verses that which you inquired concerning regarding my disagreement. I believe you are familiar with the the one and will probably best understand the difference by listening to the other.
Blessings in the Beloved to you and yours as you seek to follow the Living Word by His Written Word and Spirit.
From the article- "MAINZ, Germany — A church will host an unusual pre-Christmas service on Sunday — with the "Star Wars" films put at the center of their worship."
Don't need to exam the force there was enough in the first sentence to show that will worship has taken pre-eminence over the stated worship of the Church who no longer seems to know who to worship, how to worship in spirit and truth (John 4:21-26), nor when to worship.
Why should we be surprised at the present state of the nations who are in open defiance against God and encouraged in it by those who should be leading in truth and righteousness?
If we could prove the day Christ was born from the Scripture; would it give us the liberty to make it a holy day if it is not commanded? The Jewish holy days were commanded and their worship prescribed. We have the Christian Sabbath, which is not to be confused or mixed with tradition that strays from Scripture.
I was struck by the significance of this verse today 2Ch 21:11 Moreover he (Jehoram) made high places in the mountains of Judah, and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and compelled Judah thereto. The prophet Elijah wrote to him v.12b-15
It would seem a rather dangerous thing to change God's appointed worship concerning who is to be worshiped, how and when He is to be worshiped by adding to or subtracting from first table commandments and NT patterns. Numerous warnings are found in both Old and New Testaments. After reading 2 Chr.21 I thought of Romans 1:22-32 that clearly indicates it is will-worship that brings our present slippery slope as a judgment. Think about it.
Neither Christian nor Atheist can disregard the law of God written on the heart at Creation, that forms conscience. If there is enough natural revelation to make men without excuse what of those who have been privileged with special revelation in the visible Church?
@kjg I see that B McC has answered your question in part. It was stated it was a question based on one's desire to give glory and honor to Jesus Christ. It is true that his incarnation is an important part of the gospel narrative, but not alone.
My question is how do men who were born in sin, know how to worship God unless born again from above, so as to be taught the most basic truths? And if like little children they are willing to sit at their Father's feet and learn of Him, then where do they learn how to worship God according to His will?
John 7:16-19 “Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?” Sins of omission lead to sins of commission. By omitting to honor God's right as his Father & Sovereign to command his perfect, perpetual obedience, Adam fell from his first estate. Which commandments address the worship of God as He has commanded?
John for JESUS wrote: It's not some kind of random fatalistic group that was predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. They are believers.
B McC said earlier: "No, fatalism is resigning without purpose, design or hope. Yet, the concept of God's sovereignty means rest through trust on design based on God's character.
Man's salvation is trust on design based on God's character. As in between the lines quoted "If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other. These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring." (CHS)
I looked at the PDF file to understand what MS and BMcC were referring to. It was from Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. It was used together with a number of other Scriptures to establish the time of Christ's birth. It was not December 25th.
I read with caution and then I came to the place that I strongly disagreed and stopped reading. Years ago after coming out of Rome, I was taught that it was not a holy day, but it could be observed in family according to one's conscience as a cultural tradition. The Church could make use of it when there were visitors to taking advantage of the season that brought them in with family to preach the Gospel. Later I was taught not so and why. It is the Word and Spirit that must convince us of truth, nothing else will.
I will say however the longer we lie in error regarding anything, the more difficult it is to pull up out of its effects on our households. It's necessary to search many things out for ourselves in a day of so many mixed messages.
F Berringe wrote: God's purpose, God's will. Man irrelevant.
If man was irrelevant would God have set his love upon the elect? Salvation is of the Lord first to last but if man's chief end is to glorify God then he has some relevance because of Christ, Yes?
Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Psa 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: Psa 8:7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; Psa 8:8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. Psa 8:9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
s c wrote: ..jackhammers and lawn mowers would,at least,accomplish something more than most ccm.
what is ccm?
jackhammers and lawn mowers would better accomplish their work the other 6 days. The laborers need their rest and the gospel preached; as do those who'd like to hear it over their noise, better without that one day in 7.
Loud and Proud wrote: LOUD Psalms at least appear Biblical. [URL=http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?currSection=sermonstopic&keyworddesc=Music&keyword=music]]]music study on SA[/URL]
Did a very short listen to David Cloud part 1 of 3; you mentioned.
Not sure other than the article why you are emphasizing *loud*. I read the article but found it a mixed picture that confuses the topic of 'religious freedom?'we aren't discussing. I believe the discussion is instrumental music in worship or is it eschatology? That would be helpful to know regarding a response, if that is what you're looking for?
Jim Lincoln wrote: These atheists are just being good Puritans.
from Jim's article: "on Christmas Day the poor customarily went to the home of the richest person in town where they were given food and strong drink, resulting in jolly, though at times a bit tipsy, celebration (citing an article by Jeff Guinn in The Fort-Worth Star-Telegram).
*The Puritans, however, set out to eliminate Christmas.* Maybe you read too fast Jim, it wouldn't appear these were the tipsy-makers, but rather the rich town folk. Anyway, the article gives some historical background for the celebration or want of it.
1517, Couldn't you just note it special in family worship when you got to these texts of Scripture in your regular read through; so there is no identification with the pagan practice?
Sometimes children surprise you. When in the process of reforming, psalms only in family worship and cancelled holy days the children were okay with. It's when you keep a Christian Sabbath AND subtract holy days that the battle begins, now you're really bucking the system. My culpability in this the Lord showed me in 1998, when heart searching in answer to a young man's question. It was the way I viewed my children as unrelated to my responcibility & the 4th Command
EB wrote: Rom.7:19,10; 1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I agree, and I would image the man I quoted did as well. Yet the Scripture also says: Rom 8:12-18 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
The Scripture promise was related to warfare and war is ugly but he gives more grace. I believe that was the point. I only questioned the Anglican communion because I didn't know what you believe-quoting Ryle.
Loud and Proud wrote: 8:13And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
Even if taken one chapter at a time, do not believe you can support your instrumental, ceremonial, NT worship with these texts. There are a number of reasons to make a loud voice in proclamation. 8:13 the angel is loudly warning of the 3 Woe trumpets, yet to come in John's day. Trumpets make a loud noise to warn of the impending danger, in this case upon the unrepentant and to encourage the saints in the fray- 'Woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of earth see Rev. 13:11-15. v.15-18 And he (who he?) had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of th
pp 268 D. Steele's Notes on the Apocalypse: Rev. 20:4. ...Then when Messiah "shall have put down all rule, and all authority and power," of both sorts of tyranny (civil and ecclesiastical), "the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the. whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions, (rulers) shall serve and obey him," (v. 27.) The "saints of the Most High," according to Daniel are to be exalted to civil rule, and these are the same whom John saw "sitting on thrones." ...*The souls which the apostle saw under the altar*, whose cry for vengeance he heard, and who were directed to rest for a little season, till the roll of their martyred brethren should be completed, are here presented in quite a new position, "sitting on thrones," (ch. vi. 9.) Although they are not the same identical persons physically, they are the same morally; for the life of the two witnesses is commensurate with the reign of Antichrist"
Loud and Proud wrote: Psa 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise. Psa 98:4 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise. Psa 150:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
In the New Testament revealed: Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, *singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;* Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Found this edifying and a possible help. Repenting and believing is not a one time personal 'experience' only but an on going victory for the Church militant (2Tim.2:4,5) The Church is made up of individuals, yes, but the true Church functions as one, under a common Head- the second Adam.
EB, Why make a distinction concerning papists but not their Anglican daughters? What you call elect, I call the invisible Church -"The grace of God in its omnipotence is put forth for the overflow of evil in every form: hence the certainty of triumph. Certain of our sins find chariots of iron in our constitution, our former habits, our associations, and our occupations. Nevertheless we must overcome them. They are very strong, and in reference to them we are very weak; yet in the name of God we must master them, and we will. If one sin has dominion of us we are not the LORD's free men. A man who is held by only one chain is still a captive. There is no going to heaven with one sin ruling within us, for of the saints it is said, "Sin shall not have dominion over you." Up, then, and slay every Canaanite, and break to shivers every chariot of iron! The LORD of hosts is with us, and who shall resist His sin-destroying power?” from today's Checkbook of Promises Jos. 17:18, Jos 17:17 for context
B. McCausland wrote: Nehemiah 10 details a course of action.. as an example of an ethnic group turning to God, .. the Puritan's way of governing.
Neh 9:36-38 Behold, we are servants this day, and for the land that thou gavest unto our fathers to eat the fruit thereof and the good thereof, behold, we are servants in it: And it yieldeth much increase unto the kings whom thou hast set over us because of our sins: also they have dominion over our bodies, and over our cattle, at their pleasure, and we are in great distress. And because of all this we make a sure covenant, and write it; and our princes, Levites, and priests, seal unto it.
The List of Nehemiah 10: ... we would not give our daughters unto the people of the land, nor take their daughters for our sons: .. if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.. we made ordinances for us (as civil leaders), to charge ourselves yearly .. for the service of the house of our God; ... for all the work of the house of our God... (worship was set in order and provision made for the ministry) as it is written..
It would seem Matthew Henry agrees with Psalm 51 as a picture of OT justification; I. David's humble petition, Psa_51:1, Psa_51:2. His prayer is much the same with that which our Saviour puts into the mouth of his penitent publican in the parable: God be merciful to me a sinner! Luk_18:13. David was, upon many accounts, a man of great merit; he had not only done much, but suffered much, in the cause of God; and yet, when he is convinced of sin, he does not offer to balance his evil deeds with his good deeds, nor can he think that his services will atone for his offences; but he flies to God's infinite mercy, and depends upon that only for pardon and peace: Have mercy upon me, O God! He owns himself obnoxious to God's justice, and therefore casts himself upon his mercy; and it is certain that the best man in the world will be undone if God be not merciful to him.