John UK wrote:
A ransom for my soul was paid;
For mine, and every soul of man,
The Lamb a full atonement made,
The Lamb, for me and Judas slain.

I never realised Charles Wesley

Thus far better to sing the Hmns of God from the Book of Psalms - than proclaim the heretical ignorance of sinners.

Apparently Jesus died for quote "every soul" including Judas??? Another heretical piece of rubbish from the Anglican Wesley Arminians.

According to this religious farce and fallacy the merits of Christ did not work for everybody. Such blasphemy is the belief system of those who teach that God can't save without man's help. Or teach that faith is man's own faculty. DIY salvation.

Sadly *and many shall follow their pernicious ways.*

__________________

John UK wrote:
For any who are cold in the things of God, and have no concern for the souls of men, women and children, have a quick read of this hymn by Charles Wesley on SA, and see if the Lord may not begin a repair job in your spirit.

"Cold Christians" are to turn to an all too mortal "Wesley" to receive input in order to activate the Lord's "repair" service.

How about the "Hymns" which God wrote in Scripture?

After all Prayer only works if the Lord listens.....

Isaiah 1.14 "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood."

Jer 7.16 "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

Mike wrote:
Why would you think my Bible is NIV? I do have one, but I've not quoted from it here that I recall. I also have the NASB, NKJV, HCSB, and several others.

I bet my KJV is older than yours. It was printed in your fair country.

My KJV is certainly an old and battered copy from way back, but there is no date to support that fact. However, although printed in somewhere called England(?), it does carry a New York address in it as one of the publishers (Oxford) offices. Quote "35 West 32nd Street"

I have a selection of versions too but I've never come across the HCSB before?

So we obviously have a lot in common Mike.

DJC49 wrote:
In this sense ONLY is the Atonement "Universal": it reconciles ALL so that God can deal with ALL men propitiously.

Prev verses
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

8. "love toward US"
While still sinners HE died for "US"
9. "Now Justified"
ONLY the elect are justified before God. *BY* the blood.
AND = "saved" (from the wrath to come)

So the scene is set.

Verse 10 - For if, when *WE* were enemies, ***WE*** were reconciled to God BY THE DEATH of his Son, much more, ((NOW)) **being reconciled**
**WE** shall be saved by his life.

The "Reconciled" = Are the *WE*
The *WE* are the Elect!

Election from the foundation of the world.

Jesus KNOWS His own sheep.

Isn't it great to see he is still bringing millions to good Christian Biblical doctrines today.

Truly one of many lives which have been used to bless the True Church.

Mike wrote:
What if reconciliation and salvation are not synonyms?

2Cor 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

# What? - Just an opening of the door?

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, BEING RECONCILED, WE SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. = (Same greek root word as reconciled)

Mike are you seeking to establish that Atonement/Reconciliation was for "ALL" people?

The Arminian doctrine?

If you are thats naughty.

Mind you - you seem to have got a convert in DJC49

BTW Mike
Your Bible is NIV? Yes?
Do you notice (NT) they use the term "atonement" "atoning" in more places than KJV = only once.
Whereas the KJV uses "propitiation" and NIV does not = "atoning sacrifice"

John UK wrote:
Ah poor paranoid pew view.

As for Wesley's hymns - I'm a Psalm singer. I have always found that the Lord's own ordained hymn book is sufficient.

John I do not disagree with you simply because I disagree with you! What I have been doing on the comments board for the last few years is "debate."
I support the Calvinist doctrine because that is where I find my theological position. I didn't start with Calvin I began wholeheartedly in the Scriptures, which is where I find my true guidance. The Holy Spirit and prayer support that for me.

I have studied for a couple of decades now and been to theological college. I have preached but do not currently, because the Lord has other work for me to do for now.

I am happy to debate and generally find debate here on SA quite stimulating and helpful. I have learned quite a lot here, especially working through the views and positions of others.

"This online dictionary of King James Version words contains over 6,000 definitions. This dictionary is derived from Noah Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language, a dictionary published in 1828 which frequently uses Bible verses in the definitions." (av1611.com)

Now even our dictionaries follow the ecclesiastical and moral decline towards the abyss.

John UK wrote:
Now then pew view, play the man, and stop behaving like a neo-Calvinist. What exactly is your problem with my position?

We have both been debating for weeks over a variety of points! You clearly take the opposite stand to me on many issues. I am of the Reformed Doctrine. Clearly you have sought to establish the premise of the other doctrines.

Faith is the Gift of God. Eph 2:8,9 establishes this fact.

You John sought to establish with C.U. that it was simply a human faculty which God was required to use.

Total Depravity means spiritually dead which requires that only God the Holy Spirit can bring the sinner out of his prison to come to Christ. Man cannot indeed would not seek salvation thus.

Limited Atonement simply means that God makes the decision, indeed God has already made the decision that only the elect of God will be saved. That election is recorded in Eph 1:4,5 as being from before the foundation of the world.

Do I need to go on John?

Calvin, Whitefield, Spurgeon and the puritans taught these Reformed doctrines as well as TULIP.
BECAUSE they are Biblical.

I can't stand anywhere else but foursquare upon these Gospel doctrines.

neo-calvinism wrote:
on the sovereignty of God. The neo-Calvinists flesh this out in different directions, and do not limit their discussion of divine sovereignty to the theological. ......the sovereignty of God in all areas of life - social, economic, vocational, the arts, politics, education and so on and so forth

If you are trying to authenticate John UK's neo-calvinist theory then Kuyper is not the place to go. I would prefer he did apply kuyper's basic theological standpoint.
John usurps the title of Calvinism but uses a recipe which includes a good sprinkling of free will/arminian hypothesis.
xxxxxx

John wrote:
#5 It is through reading Spurgeon that I came to understand better the doctrines of grace. Not this modern hyper stuff, but historic Calvinism

John UK wrote:
#3 You claim: "Believe His Words, His Doctrine, His Truth for it is life onto the soul."
Exceedingly correct!
At last, someone else who believes that faith is not an additional faculty given the sinner, but that God's Spirit works with what is ALREADY THERE. "onto the soul" yes indeedy

The people who believe His words and believe on Jesus are those chosen (thats what election means) by God to do so.

Look John *No Hands*
NO human hands anyway
44 NO MAN can come to me, EXCEPT the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

BTW The only "neo-calvinism" around here John is this erroneous theory of yours, where calvinism has Arminian hypothesis thrown in to make it "nice" - like the fallacy of Wesley with a wee bit of grace velcro'd onto the beginning to make it acceptable?

Try reading the Puritans and Spurgeon properly instead of with predisposed ideologies.

Hear Hear wrote:
Pew View again shows himself to be an unthinking calvinist.
Pew View are you not ashamed to give the thumbs up to a post which SA moderators considered too obnoxious to leave on the forum?

As for SA's removal
WHY??? Have I missed something?

As the Synod of Dordt and the *TRUE* Reformed Church states, Arminianism is Heresy!" Same as their brothers in "works based religion" the Roman Catholics are heretics. Why even the Jehovahs Witnesses believe in salvation by self/works.
There is only two religions in the world, God ordained one, - and Man invents the other of whatever title it serves.

Limited Atonement is a fact of election, God choosing who is saved.

Those who widen the scope of Atonement do so for only one purpose, to fabricate a religion whereby the sinner becomes less of a sinner and God must correspondingly become less sovereign.
Thats why you guys argue over Total Depravity and Sovereignty.

God omnisciently foresaw and foreknew the elect which He alone omnipotently prepared for salvation.

You've rattled some cages this day.

There is only One way gents, either one doctrine is truth or the other is truth. Both can't be true. Faith is the gift of God wrought in your heart. Or does God require your cooperation to save you? Total Depravity - Or can you overcome sin of your own volition? Christ Died ONLY for the Elect - Or did He gain access for anyone who breaks out of the mould/mold of dead in sin/enemy of God? Is the Creator's grace easily resisted by the creature He made?

When the Calvinist appears before the bar of Christ he will believe and say - "Thankyou for both my election and my faith."

The Arminian (free willer) claims a share in the glory.

Publican wrote:
Straw men ....

To this day, I have not seen a sober representation of the tenets of Calvinism (here).

There are many on here who claim the title but don't speak the lingo.

But then isn't that Christianity all over and throughout history whereby many have claimed the name - But not discerned, received nor spoken the Truth!

As Spurgeon pointed out Calvinism IS the Gospel
And he was absolutely correct.

Therefore just as there is no new Gospel - there is NO new Calvinism.

Below we find "Don" the RC/Arminian telling us that there is no such thing as "predestination"

The Bible states different. Eph 1.4/5.
But herein do we find the lesser god religion whereby man demotes God (to not quite so omnipotent) so that he can promote himself to "sin-overcomer" and salvation by self.

TULIP is entirely Biblical as the elect know.

God is Supreme
God is Sovereign
God is Omnipotent

Other religions modify the power and authority of God for only ONE reason....

And that is to promote the SINNER above his station.
Now that is for those who CAN'T read Bible by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

John UK wrote:
This neo-calvinism is nothing like what Whitefield believed and PRACTISED.

Frankly I can perceive quite clearly your theological point of view and the obvious difference between it and Calvinism. That, I don't need any famous preachers to show me.

Your position whether you like to admit it or not is anti-Calvinist. Fact!

I remember a couple of months ago where you said that you didn't like the word "Calvinism" plus your use of the "frenchie" insult is blatantly obvious in manifesting your position.

Put this together with the very obvious trend in your posts for free will arminian - anti Reformed Church doctrine and hey presto = John is a modern Arminian.

Don't worry about bricks and mortar.