1 cor 12v4-11. There are diversities of gifts given by the spirit for the church. There are diversities of activities given by God. Spiritual gifts are supernatural gifts. They are not grits of the spirit. They are for the edification of the church. When i soak of tongues it is an evidence of the baptism of the spirit. It is a language God has given to the person. like jules mentioned an old man heard another prayer in his native tongue and that answered his deep need. I think we need to remember that God is limitless. We need to stop putting God in our own little box and saying this is what he does. he is able to do whatever he desires and he tells us of these spiritual gifts for the church. God wants the church to be empowered with these gifts. By scripture you cannot state that these gifts have ceased. That is your personal opinion but it is not biblically based. Many people have opinions but the weird of God hold authority.
If baptism of the spirit occurred during rebirth then why did the apostles have to come from Jerusalem to Samaria to lay hands on believers that they may receive the holy spirit. Baptism of the spirit is immersion in the spirit. I'm not saying your are not saved. But it is a separate occurrence. And when we are born again we ate born again through the spirit but that is not baptism. It is a gift from God. I find it interesting that you have just told me that i am speaking heresy but haven't addressed my examples or scriptures i have provided and told me (if i am wrong) what the true interpretation is. Even Jesus himself said to the disciples about the gift of the spirit 'that he is with you but will be in you'.and to stay in Jerusalem until the promise of the father. At what point were the disciples saved? When they believed isn't it? Then why did they need to receive the gift from the father for it to be in them? If the disciples needed it. So do we. Btw i have already mentioned it but if you don't understand a language it doesn't mean it is gibberish. When we pray in tongues. .it doesn't sound like made up words or just some sound. Anyways it is hard for you to understand because you have already made up your opinion on it. And that is what it is. You aren't approaching
I know what you mean. There is unfortunately a big deception going around. Satan has always tried to be like God and imitates him as much add he can. So there are false prophets. There are false teachers too. There are false healings and powers and signs. But that doesn't mean that God doesn't use it. I have had prophecies said to me that have answered deep questions that noone but God would have known about. Like Luke 11v9-13 especially verse 13 shows that if we pray to the father and ask him for the holy spirit that is exactly what we will receive. ..not something else and definately not a false spirit. I disagree with those churches who teach their members to speak in tongues and do all sorts of things that aren't biblical like laughing or rolling around the floor or barking like dogs. Everything needs to be tested against scripture. I have not regretted the day i was baptised.
The third example is the baptism of the Apostle Paul (Acts 9v17). God sent Ananias to pray for Saul so that he may be healed and also receive baptism of the Holy Spirit. As after his meeting with Jesus on the road to Damascus, Saul was blinded for 3 days. In this passage, it does not mention that he began to speak in tongues but in other passages, Apostle Paul, himself states that he speaks in tongues (1 Corinthians 13v1, 14v18). But it is interesting to note that Scripture does not ever mention of Paul speaking in tongues publicly or that he preached to somebody in tongues. Most likely it was his own private prayer language.
No i was not saying that there is no new birth. Why the baptism of the spirit is available only to born again Christians. It is not an argument about salvation or grace. P.s baptism of the spirit is not fruits of the spirit. Fruits are grown and cultivated during our work with Christ add we become more Christ like. Like a fruit growing on a tree. but gifts are instantaneous and are recorded in 1 corinthians.
Take note: he did not say “one of the gifts of the Spirit” of which there are nine. The gift itself is the Holy Spirit, Himself! Verse 39 is very important; it tells us that the promised Holy Spirit is for everyone that the Lord calls. If you argue, according to this verse, that the gift of the Holy Spirit is not for today than you must also say that God no longer calls anyone.
But God DOES call and as long as He still calls, there is still the promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
You argue that the Holy Spirit was needed for the first church but since we have the Bible, we no longer require baptism of the Holy Spirit. Apostle Paul, himself said that the tongues will cease (1 Corinthians 13v8). We live in that time where people claim tongues are meant to be ‘ceased’. There will come a time when tongues WILL cease- that is when we are in heaven. But for the meantime we need those tongues because Apostle Paul states that not only will tongues cease in heaven but also knowledge will come to an end. Those people who say that tongues have ceased still use knowledge very well. You cannot take what you like out of Scripture and take it out of context. Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” Acts 2v38-39 Peter preached the gospel and the people realised they had sinned. That sermon had touched their hearts. They asked ‘what should we do?’ He tells them to repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. Be born again and you shallreceive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Take note: he did not say “one of the gifts
‘…who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus.’ Acts 8v15-16 Phillip was preaching the gospel in Samaria and many believed and he baptised them in water. But they were not yet baptised in the Holy Spirit. Therefore he invited the Apostles to come from Jerusalem to pray for them, so that they might receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This passage is a very strong argument against those who say that the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs during water baptism- that whoever is baptised in water automatically is baptised in the Holy Spirit. That opinion is not based on the word of God as it would have taken the Apostles several days to travel from Jerusalem to Samaria. It is also interesting to note that a certain man saw that through the laying of the Apostle’s hands, the Holy Spirit was given to believers (Acts 8v18-19). Fact: the baptism of the Holy Spirit was evidenced- it was SEEN by surrounding people. It is certain that he saw these people speaking in tongues. Because, searching the Scriptures, there is no other evidence mentioned by which you can determine whether someone was baptised in the Holy Spirit or not. I hope that helps
The third example is when Apostle Paul went to Ephesus and met some believers who had been baptised into John’s baptism (Acts 19v1-6). The first question Apostle Paul asks them is ‘did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?’ They hadn’t even heard that there was a Holy Spirit because they had been baptised into John’s baptism of repentance. Paul then baptised them in the name of Jesus and laid hands on them and the Holy Spirit came upon them and they also started to speak in tongues and prophesy. These are the three instances where the baptism of the Holy Spirit was evidenced with speaking in tongues.
The Bible mentions 3 examples where the baptism of the spirit was evidenced by speaking in tongues. The first passage is the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit first fell upon them and they started to speak with other tongues (Acts 2v1-4).
The second is when Apostle Peter is sent by the Holy Spirit to the household of Cornelius and preached to them the gospel, and those who were listening started to speak in tongues when the Holy Spirit came upon them (Acts 10v44-46). Peter and the Jews with him were astonished as they didn’t think God would baptise Gentiles with the Holy Spirit, but when they heard them speak in other tongues- they did not have any doubt that God has baptised them with the Holy Spirit. After this, Peter commanded them to be baptised in water and because of this water baptism, Peter received a bit of trouble with the rest of the early church. And many asked him, ‘who gave you the right to baptise Gentiles?’ There was a lengthy discussion about this and when Peter told them that ‘God had baptised them the same way, He had baptised us,’ it was a convincing argument to the whole church (Acts 11v15-18).
The third example is when Apostle Paul went to Ephesus and met some believers who had been baptised into John’s baptism (Acts 19v1-6). The first question
Yes that's right dolores. It makes you cling to god more and more. Dave when i get home, I'll try to explain myself better using scripture if you like. May God bless you to be open to all scripture.
Sigh. .. I'm not talking about some forced gibberish that you may get from charismatic churches. I truly believe tongues are in existence today asi have been baptized in the spirit and i know for sure. Regarding bible verses. ..I'm not taking anything out of context. Yes Paul says tongues will cease and knowledge will pass away but love remains. All of this is pointless if it is not done in love. By the way knowledge still remains and tongues haven't ceased as you seem to think. Or when we pray for baptism of the spirit does our gracious heavenly father give us a demon? I think not. It is something that had divided many churches in times past and i think it interesting that people will skip areas in the bible and claim it isn't for today just because they don't understand it or maybe refuse to understand it due to naff experience. Sounds similar to what is happening with the new age movement. Just pick the things we like hey? The bible speaks allot about the baptism in the holy spirit and people shouldn't be afraid of it if it is from God. You will know them by their fruit. I know there are wackos out there and unfortunately they have made it harder for people to accept the beautiful gifts that can be available to us. I wish i was better in explaining things..
Well when the apostles were first filled with the spirit people around them thought they were drunk with new wine. Order? But there was tongues and they all spoke in tongues about the glorious works of God. Just because you don't understand a language doesn't mean it is gibberish. Also when apostle Peter quotes the prophet Joel and tells the onlookers that it was the outpouring of the spirit, he tells them that it was a promise for their children and those afar off as many add the Lord will call. Other words it was not just for that day but even for future believers. Does the Lord still call people to him? Are people still saved these days? Or was the last person saved in the days of the apostles? Obviously not because we are saved. Thereby the Lord still baptizes with the spirit still even now. We can't cherry pick and just pick out verses we want. When apostle Paul talks about order in the church he mentions the gifts of the spirit and tongues to be as a private prayer language (between you and God)unless there is an interpreter present. Read 1 corinthians.
I attend a pentecostal evangelical church. We do not roll on the floor or laugh uncontrollably. But we do believe the outpouring of the holy spirit happens today and those baptized in the spirit do speak in tongues as a private prayer language. There is nothing weird about that. Happened in the times of the apostles. Happens now. But we are a very conservative church who preaches the gospel and is led by males. And we ate against same sex marriage. We are not a charismatic church.
I agree with jules.... You cannot bag someone out because of what they've done when they were unregenerate.... No that doesn't mean we excuse sin but before we were saved apostle Paul says so were we sinners.. Plus we do need to be honest with sins in the church but don't expect that it is easy for anyone to talk and tell people that they've been abused when they have been. There's more of a spiritual battle there than you think. ..
if a man robbed a bank and with that money started a successful business such as a charity fundraising foundation and it was later discovered that he had stolen the money...years later would you still visit the business if you were in need of its services if you knew the business had faulty beginnings? it's the same with the human cell vaccine lines. when they created the first vaccine from human cell line they did not need to keep using aborted fetuses to replicate and make additional.vaccinations. what we get now is not derived immediately from a fetus cell. when a man made an unethical decision to use an aborted baby to make his vaccine, does it really mean you are supporting him by vaccinating your kids even though the vaccinations these days do not contain fetus remains? I don't think you can use that argument about fetal cell lines against vaccinations.especially since not all vaccines were created the same way and its up to each parent to make their decision as God leads them.
the man that is getting his head transplanted has a disease that affects his body and thus he thinks he has nothing to lose. it is very unlikely that this surgery will be a success.... mostly because if he doesn't die..he'll be on strong antirejection drugs that could poison him and even if they connect and fuse the spinal cord together there is no guarantee he'll even be able to breathe or walk again. we have people who have flaps done from their own body for reconstructive breast surgery post breast cancer and even then there is a highrejection rate. how much more would it be if it weren't your own body!!! plus microvascular surgery takes more than an hour. it will be impossible for the head to survive detachment for so long. this doctor may literally create a Frankenstein monster....
8/13/15 8:37 PM
