Frank wrote:
We have Abraham’s faith and his works being noted. James is comparing what Abraham did and what Rahab did to saving or genuine faith. He is clearly saying that if our faith does not produce works when it is called upon to do so, then that faith is dead and is not saving faith. But if we look at this a little closer it becomes clear that he is not saying that works produces faith, but simply that works demonstrates that we have faith. Remember I am not saying that saving faith won’t produce works. What I am maintaining is that the works cannot produce faith, but simply documents that our faith indeed gave us a new heart that desires to serve Christ. Notice how he says “show me your faith” and then says his faith will be shown by works. The issue he is bringing up is clearly not works, but what constitutes saving faith. We could easily in different jargon say something like, “if you love me, then you will do such and such”. This is not the same as saying “if you do such and such, then you love me”.
My personal desire is to live a holy and blameless life in this lost and fallen world!
See Pilgrim, you have had a positive effect on me.

John UK wrote:
More delaying tactics!
Of course, you dare not come out with what you regard as the gospel, because it would reveal you as a heretic. You accuse others, just like the "accuser of the brethren", and have NO concern - ZILCH - for their eternal condition.
Now maybe you'd like to apologise before we carry on.
___________
Elder Frank

Frank wrote:
He is all yours Pilgrim. It would appear that he doesn't believe that we are completely and finally justified by our Substitute. Christ is my righteousness and His righteousness was imputed to me. Sounds a little like the holiness movement or another works based salvation theology?

John UK wrote:
Hey, fellow Pilgrim.
I'm not so sure. After all, the Bible says that "all have sinned" and "the whole world is guilty before God", so I can only imagine Lee thinks a baby remains sinless for a very short time before it sins and is guilty, needing a Saviour. If that is the case, the gospel for those of age cannot be any different because of a different view of original sin, because the facts speak for themselves. It is only a sinner who needs the gospel.
What sayest thou, Lee? What is thy gospel for sinners?

Frank wrote:
Hey Pilgrim! I think Lee finally clarified his earlier comment when he said we don't inherit a sin nature. Clearly anyone who professes this, will have a different gospel than you and I regardless of how he tries to spin it.

Michael Hranek wrote:
Lee
Interesting but are you really sure about this?
In sin my mother conceived me, is kind of born out in the reality parents know babies are born with a sinful nature and we don't have to teach our children to sin, to act selfishly, to be unthankful, to lie, to steal (like from another child), to disobey their parents, etc., do we.
I am sure there is a whole lot more to this area of discussion but for now OOS

We need to be a lot more sensitive and loving about the way we speak about homosexuality. We've elevated it to a position of being worse than other sins like lying and adultery.